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How could I have better managed slide?

5K views 25 replies 11 participants last post by  sturgeon 
#1 ·
For some reason I decided to make a left turn through an intersection at a steeper turn angle than usual. I remember telling myself to trust the tires. Things were going well until I hit the painted crosswalk lines. All of a sudden, my back tire kicked out from under me and slid from under me for what must have been a few feet... Happened so fast it was hard to gauge the distance. Everything started going in slow motion.

My first instinct was to do nothing, maintain my riding position, wait for the traction control to kick in, and hope for the best. Suddenly, it must have hit another line because it slipped a bit more and my body dropped what felt like 4-5 inches towards the road. Instinctually I stuck my left leg out and basically pushed my foot off the road to try and upright the bike again. I know I did something to it. Not sure why but it is my right leg that is hurting now. Left leg is fine.

I was able to regain control and went about my business. I just remember yelling out "whoa" although I am pretty sure there were some swear words thrown in there as well.

What is the proper recovery method other than not to have gotten myself in that situation in the first place?

That is the first time the BMW has ever done that to me in the nearly 4 years I had her so it really caught me off guard.. I have always felt confident making turns in dry and wet conditions with the BMW.

Thanks for any help. The thought of walking away before my luck runs out crossed my mind tonight. Earlier tonight I almost got side swiped by a car that came suddenly from two lanes away and tried to get into my lane. Luckily I was able to speed up and he ended up where I was a couple seconds earlier. Feels like maybe I am getting a bit old for this. IDK. Pretty sure that feeling will pass... but twice in one night.
 
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#2 ·
I've had occasions, pre-LC/ASC, where I have instinctively dropped the inside foot to the ground and found the same as you - it stopped the slide progressing further. So on that point, your now sore leg may have saved the day by preventing the slide progressing into a tumble for bit you and the bike - ASC will not defy the laws of physics and rescue you in every case, so is not to be blindly relied on.

I've also trained myself to use smooth throttle adjustments in all situations (except snappy gear changes) and rather than simply hold the throttle and expect 'the system' to look after me, I would have instinctively rolled the throttle back smoothly - too quickly can result in a highside. This was effective on my F800ST a few years back when the rear stepped out alarmingly on a long, tight curve.

That's my two-bob's worth.
 
#3 ·
For “slow” speed and tight maneuvers (like a hook turn) another thing to consider if not already is using your rear break to modulate speed with your throttle and clutch set and push the bike down towards the road with your body maintaining an upright position (like you would a dirt bike). It’s a better position to allow you to properly turn your head to look to where you are going and not just in front of you which usuallly has a rider not able to turn as tight as they could otherwise.

Too many folks execute tight turns as they would one at higher speed, with their weight on the inside of the bike and using the throttle to modulate speed. If there is a slip then there is a weight bias on the side it is falling which adds to the problem. If you use the abovementioned, it’s easier to “pick the bike up” to (hopefully) combat the issue. Not saying that would have been the solution, but it may have helped.
 
#9 ·
Thanks everyone for the input. I think if it wasn't for the second slip during the first slip, I think I would have been fine. That second one really caught me off guard.



Actually I am guessing I was going about 25-30 mph (40-48 kph) through the intersection. As I approached the intersection, I had the green light and there were no cars coming in the other direction. I don't know why, but I had the "bright" idea of taking the turn a bit more aggressively.

It is a good reminder for low speed maneuvers though. Thanks.

It's one thing to put your foot down in a planned fashion in the dirt on a 250-300 lb enduro. It's quite another to do so on a 1200cc 500 lb road bike on the pavement. Your achilles tendon, among other things, will thank you for refraining.

Yikes. Yeah, that was a bad reflex reaction on my part. I have some experience with trying to react to a slide but never a slide during a slide.
 
#4 ·
Lots of good advise given, but putting it in practice when things go pear-shaped is always going to be the challenge. But the biggie is not to look down when riding slowly. To keep a sense of balance you need to be looking up at where you want to go. As the old saying goes - look down and you'll go down.


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#8 ·
Just to be clear - I liked your comment Not the injury ... that looked really painful
 
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#6 ·
Ouch!!

Just to be clear in my post, the act of “picking the bike up” does not involve putting your foot down, but pulling the bars back up towards you to bring the bike (more) upright, with both feet on the pegs.

Road riding is a bit like trials riding in that you should never want to put your foot down whilst in motion.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I try not react to much, but steer in to the slide as long as there isn't anything to hit, like an oncoming car or other object. I keep my feet on the pegs, period.

I had a couple of slideys today on a mountain road, no time to do anything stupid and get myself bonked, just rode out both, in to the slide.

Glad you didn't lowside your bike!
 
#10 ·
A very good and helpful way to learn this body-shifting tight-turn slow moving position without risking all on your precious motorbike is simply to hop onto a pedal cycle and practice thereon.
 
#11 ·
Just to be clear, my post wasn't intended as a criticism of anyone's riding style or techniques. I was always taught and always tried to practice the standard, "look where you want to go and stay on the throttle". But instinctive reactions in the absence of lots of practice are difficult to overcome.

About 10 years ago I had a couple of instances where I put my foot down while riding off-road. Each time, my foot ended up folding up at the ankle a bit more than nature intended. Apparently I'm no Ricky Carmichael. Both times I was a bit sore afterwards, but even at my age I still considered myself immortal, and just shrugged it off. Ibuprofen helped.

Then, in a relatively innocuous situation while on a long solo trip, I decided that the chain on my V-Strom badly needed adjustment, cleaning and a lube, after a bunch of back-woods gravel road running in the rain. So I pulled into the parking lot of an auto supply place to buy some lube and apply it. I was parked on a very slight downhill, and it was cold and raining, as September here can be. Rather than move the bike to a level spot, I unthinkingly tried to hoist it onto the centre-stand, which was a bit more difficult than usual due to the slope. I've put bikes onto centre-stands more times than I can count, but this time the ball of my foot slipped off the peg as I was applying maximum downward force, and slammed into the pavement. There was no pain, it just felt like a sprain. But I've had enough first-aid training to recognize that the dizzy feeling was probably shock, so I sat down on the curb until it passed. When I stood up, I could put full weight on my foot but when I took a step, I almost did a face-plant. It wasn't until later that I discovered that my heel was disconnected from my calf, as it were. Because it was my right leg, I was able to ride to the hospital. Getting it onto the side-stand there was a bit tricky since I couldn't hold it up with my right leg. So I just balanced, lifted my left leg and was able to get the stand down before it fell over. The triage nurse, who I suspect was Nurse Ratched's twin sister, frostily said, "I'd never let my husband ride one of those things; you're a moving organ donation". or some such comment. I just smiled sweetly and told her that it was probably best we weren't married.

The ER doc, who was a dirt rider, told me that it was just a fluke accident, but that I'd probably weakened the tendon with the previous repeated smaller injuries from putting my foot down. He also said I was a bit too flexible. I didn't know that was a thing. It didn't help that I was wearing touring boots rather than stiffer dirt boots. Anyhow, I was surgically repaired the next morning, kicked out that evening. I was 800 km from home, so I had to call to say I wouldn't be home on schedule. My wonderful partner drove up the next day to bring me home. Luckily, I did this in my old home town and was able to get my ex-brother-in-law and my nephew to come fetch me from the hospital and to store my bike over the winter.

I guess that's a long boring story, but it's intended to demonstrate the folly of too many foot plants. Even deliberate ones can result in, well, the above ... followed by 8 weeks in a cast with another 8 weeks of physio rehab. My PT calls me Achilles.

The good news in all of it was that I have a high tolerance for pain. The ER doc showed me there was about an inch-long gap between the ends of the torn tendon, and that I should be in a large amount of pain. My first wife, whose brother came to pick me up afterwards, used to say of me, "No brain, no pain". (My surname is Payne). I still managed to con her into driving me back up north the next spring to fetch my bike. She made me drive her car the whole way, pay for all the gas, and I had to take her large family out to dinner. Could've been worse, I guess. I could've also had her 3 sisters in the car.
 
#14 ·
...I was always taught and always tried to practice the standard, "look where you want to go and stay on the throttle"...
Never heard this, but seems like good advice for many situations, and easy to stick in your head for quick retrieval when needed.
 
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#13 ·
Could've been worse - this poor guy separated his shoulder on the first morning of a 2-week wilderness whitewater canoe trip a couple of years ago. Catch was that we were in the middle of nowhere in Yukon, and the nearest place was Dawson, about 250 km overland as the helicopter flies. I reckon the medevac cost his insurance company about $15K. Luckily a couple of us (not me) were doctors who were able to safely reduce it, with some single-malt as a sedative.
 

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#16 ·
Looking where you want to go and staying on the gas is definitely not applicable to every situation, and may or may not have helped Sound Wave, but seems like a good 'default first instinct' which can then be modified as the situation unfolds. The bike tends to go where the rider looks, and tends to become less balanced as speed and momentum decrease. As long as we're looking up and riding we're in control, but once we look down or put a foot down we're probably mitigating a situation, and looking down or putting a foot down can quickly lead to going down depending on the situation of course.

One of the things I love about the LC GS is the Shift Assist Pro which allows quick sequential downshifts going hot into a turn, to be used with judgement of course. One of the great things about riding is the constant situational awareness and quick decision making imposed, skills that carry over into other activities.

Also agree about dirt riding as great training for street riding, learn to really RIDE a bike, try wheelies and jumps, read terrain and react quickly, get comfortable with low traction situations (mud, water, leaves), get sideways and even go down occasionally but then jump right back on and ride some more. Plus, dirt riding is ten times funner than street riding any day!
 
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#17 ·
I like the Shift Assist on the Roadster too. I haven't actually looked into it, but it seems that the clutch must be a form of 'slipper'; I've yet to be able to cause rear-wheel slide by quick downshifts (I've tried). Another thing I learned in some long-ago off-road course was to always be in a suitably lower gear to quickly accelerate out of trouble. That's perhaps more relevant for small bikes, but even on big ones, I've seen riders get hard on the brakes and then find themselves in a gear too tall to get going quickly again. I've always wondered if automatic transmissions in cars make people a bit less aware of downshifting in some situations.

+1 on the fun of dirt riding. There's something childishly satisfying about spraying mud and gravel out from under the rear wheel. And you don't need clothespins and baseball cards on the spokes to make noise.
 
#19 ·
I was able to regain control and went about my business. I just remember yelling out "whoa" although I am pretty sure there were some swear words thrown in there as well.

What is the proper recovery method other than not to have gotten myself in that situation in the first place?

That is the first time the BMW has ever done that to me in the nearly 4 years I had her so it really caught me off guard.. I have always felt confident making turns in dry and wet conditions with the BMW.

Thanks for any help. The thought of walking away before my luck runs out crossed my mind tonight. Earlier tonight I almost got side swiped by a car that came suddenly from two lanes away and tried to get into my lane. Luckily I was able to speed up and he ended up where I was a couple seconds earlier. Feels like maybe I am getting a bit old for this. IDK. Pretty sure that feeling will pass... but twice in one night.
SW, it shakes you when something like this happens. I had a hard time trusting my bike for the whole season one time and still have to talk to myself on that turn I frequently visit (near my house). It happens so fast, you wonder. Glad all is well.
 
#24 ·
Funny to read this, as something like this just happened to me on Friday morning.
It was our annual trip around Tasmania and we decided to go anti-clockwise this time.

We approached a little town called Rosebery, and we were travelling at a decent pace, but nothing silly.
Came around a right hand corner and felt a "squishy" sensation on the front wheel and before I knew what it was, the bike started sliding, fishtailing and steering towards the barrier.
I put my right foot down, applied some brake and ended up getting the bike bike back in the right direction.
The guy riding behind me called only Marc Marquez from that moment, as he couldn't believe that I saved the bike, as I was apparently sideways through the corner.

The local council had just resurfaced the road and forgot to put warning signs up! I must have hit a soft patch of bitumen mixed with a lot of gravel.
I was lucky, two other riders of the same group crashed, but were able to continue the ride with a lot of tape and cable ties applied.

I firmly believe that the electronics on the bike had a major play in me being able to save the bike, but also that I steered the bike with my foot around the corner.

All the training is fine and good, but when you get caught in such an incident, it is hard to stay calm and collected.
Slow manoeuvring techniques have nothing to do with incidents at speed.
 
#25 ·
That exact scenario caught me out a few years ago, downhill shaded 35kph right hander, a corner I ride frequently, but they had just done a spray and seal and left several inches of gravel sitting on top. It wasnt helped by the fact that I sit wide on the entry so closer to the edge where the gravel was thicker and with less run off (unless you call Armco run off).

Yep, sometimes the conditions conspire against you, no matter the skill set, practice and training.
 
#26 ·
Similar conditions here every spring (if spring ever comes). Winter road conditions mean that lots of sand (mixed with salt) is used and as winter starts to ease its grip, normal 4-wheeled road traffic tends to throw all that sand to the centre and outside of corners. God help you if you run a bit wide in the springtime on a twisty road at any kind of speed. You're in the proverbial weeds before you know it. And the weeds here on some roads are 30-foot spruce trees. Very, umm, scratchy :frown2:

The off-road training I mentioned earlier comes in handy for :001_9898: like that.
 
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