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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey gang, after reading numerous reviews stating that 'dynamic pro' makes things even sportier/stiffer than dynamic, I found (and felt) zero evidence of that. Frustrating that the manual doesn't provide more specific info. Anyway, here are my questions:
1. What's the difference between DYNAMIC mode, vs DYNAMIC-PRO with both throttle and DTC in 'dynamic'? I felt none, so probably the same thing, right? Note the only 3 options for both settings are 'rain', 'rode', and 'dynamic'. By the way, I felt almost no difference between road and dynamic modes on throttle sensitivity. Am I the only one? Oh, and you cannot change the suspension to 'road' on either of those 2 modes (which makes sense, I guess).

2. What's the difference in suspension preload between DYNAMIC mode, and ROAD mode with dynamic suspension manually changed? And how about between DYNAMIC and ROAD settings?

3. Suspension preload is only 'min' or 'max', but what exactly does 'auto' does? It's supposed to switch between the 2 modes automatically, but is that the case, or does it adjust to certain height infinitely, depending on the actual rear ride height?

4. What is the difference in PRELOAD between 'min' and 'max'? Does the former means minimum preload, and the latter maximum? Or is it that each maintains a certain rear ride height, and which are the specific numbers? Does anybody know?

Just want to understand my bike better :). By the way, it was better than I expected in the twisties yesterday, on its maiden voyage. I enjoyed it. Had to take it easy on the new tires, also due to cold temperatures. But other than a few (seamless) DTC interventions, zero hiccups from the surprisingly good Z8s.
 

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Four separate controls (suspension height, suspension damping, throttle sensitivity and skid control) and a lot of confusing fancy marketing terms :)

First of all you have the suspension height control, preload of the shock. Min is the lower setting of the shock for solo driver, no auto adjustment. Max is the higher setting for fully loaded bike, no auto adjustment. Auto adjusts the preload automatically between the two extremes. A question for the others: Does automatic mean that, if you move forward to compress the forks and quicken the steering (e.g., while riding uphill) the bike will compensate and lower the shock?

Then there's the suspension stiffness, where the shock absorber and fork damping is controled. You have two settings: road and dynamic. In the dynamic setting the damping is higher, in road it is lower and in both cases it adapts to the road conditions. On my R1200R there is noticable difference, but it could be more pronounced for my taste. I notice it most if I forget it in road and during heavy braking in the twisties the front end drops too quickly - I switch it to dyamic. And on rough straight roads I notice that I've left it in dynamic, because the ride is rougher than it could be.

Last are the riding modes, which control both the throttle response and the skid control. In rain mode the initial "bite" of the throttle is the softest and the skid control intervenes very early. In road the throttle is more direct and the skid control intervenes later. In dynamic the throttle is yet more direct and skid control supposedly allows some light wheelspin. The R1250R dynamic pro is what used to be called user mode, where you can set each according to your taste. I have the user mode on my R1200R set for the most sensitive throttle and the earliest intervention of the skid control. I have enough throttle control so that I don't need a softer response and I prefer a more direct throttle, so the user mode gets used instead of the rain mode. And yes, I've heard that the throttle is, sadly, less "direct" on R1250R than on R1200R.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your reply. That is basically my understanding of how it works too, except I thought 'auto' was just to switch between min and max, but not in-between as well... which makes sense, as a stepper motor can perfectly do that. And that being the case, maybe it's true that dynamic mode increases preload... but where? Halfway thru min and max? Those are the details I'd like to know :).
 

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I initially put the damping in dynamic but for riding around town, it was a bit hard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah, I can immediately tell between the 2 modes. Road is still a bit on the firm side (the way I like it), but compliant, so very comfy. At least compared to what I was used to. Ha ha. And dynamic is nice and firm, but not overly so. BMW nailed it with the settings for the kind of riding I do, so very pleased. Hopefully we'll learn of the intricate details from an expert one day :).
 

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Hey gang, after reading numerous reviews stating that 'dynamic pro' makes things even sportier/stiffer than dynamic, I found (and felt) zero evidence of that. Frustrating that the manual doesn't provide more specific info. Anyway, here are my questions:
1. What's the difference between DYNAMIC mode, vs DYNAMIC-PRO with both throttle and DTC in 'dynamic'? I felt none, so probably the same thing, right?
Correct, no throttle change between these two modes. Suspension is also the same unless you take advantage of the manual adjustments offered in DYNAMIC PRO. When DYNAMIC changes into DYNAMIC PRO, they share the same settings until they're manually tweaked.

Note the only 3 options for both settings are 'rain', 'rode', and 'dynamic'. By the way, I felt almost no difference between road and dynamic modes on throttle sensitivity. Am I the only one? Oh, and you cannot change the suspension to 'road' on either of those 2 modes (which makes sense, I guess).
There is a notable difference between ROAD and DYNAMIC throttle response. If you don't feel one, be sure you have the software update that was offered a while back, the one that addresses the known connectivity issue and optimizes throttle mapping / performance. That said, even before I had that update installed, there was a difference in throttle response between ROAD and DYNAMIC...just not quite as pronounced.

2. What's the difference in suspension preload between DYNAMIC mode, and ROAD mode with dynamic suspension manually changed? And how about between DYNAMIC and ROAD settings?

3. Suspension preload is only 'min' or 'max', but what exactly does 'auto' does? It's supposed to switch between the 2 modes automatically, but is that the case, or does it adjust to certain height infinitely, depending on the actual rear ride height?
Not sure I quite follow #2 and #3, but essentially DYNAMIC is stiffer than ROAD, and the dynamic suspension checks the suspension feedback a hundred times per second to optimize the default setting for both modes. I have no idea how much ride/seat height factors into the suspension travel it's calculating, but, no, it wouldn't be infinite.

4. What is the difference in PRELOAD between 'min' and 'max'? Does the former means minimum preload, and the latter maximum? Or is it that each maintains a certain rear ride height, and which are the specific numbers? Does anybody know?
There is of course an ideal equation (that presumably includes height) that each riding mode attempts to achieve as its default optimization, but, again, I'm afraid I've no idea on specifically how much ride/suspension height factors into the calculation the bike is constantly analyzing. I'm certain, though, that it's just one of a number of relevant factors in the equation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you for you input. So if you want dynamic suspension, throttle, and DTC, there's no reason to use dynamic pro mode at all, right? Since dynamic mode already provides that. A guy with a R1200GS I met yesterday told me that dynamic pro 'learns' how you ride, but never heard of that before. Nor does that make any sense. At any rate, what I did with dynamic pro mode is to put the DTC in 'road' mode, since it was cold and dusty in the mountains, and left throttle in dynamic, and that's how I rode the Cloudcroft twisties the other day. As you could see on the photo I posted, I had some DTC intervention. Anyway, by the same token, if you were to use dynamic pro mode with both road throttle/DTC, it'd be the same as using road mode with dynamic suspension, right? So that mode is only useful if you want to mix the only 2 available parameters (throttle and DTC), and keep suspension in dynamic mode (you cannot change it to road in neither of the dynamic modes).

As far as the throttle settings, I'm breaking my bike in, so haven't been aggressive with the throttle. Maybe that's where the most noticeable difference between road and dynamic is? My bike was supposedly fully updated when I bought it (on the previous Saturday), but the BMW tech wasn't there, and it was done by the idiot who couldn't remove a weird service warning (doesn't say what it is for), installed the mirrors wrong, installed the battery backwards, 'lost' both grommets from the battery cover, and also 'lost' the red plug to protect the '+' terminal. In other words, everything that needed to be touched on the bike, was f***ed up by that guy. But the sport dash is there, so seems that at least the update must have been done correctly, I guess. It took over an hour to get it done, according to the salesman.

Finally, I was very pleased with the suspension performance. Both road and dynamic pro (with road DTC and dynamic throttle) modes were perfect for the slab, and the cold and dusty twisties, respectively. I left the preload in 'auto' mode, which is the recommended setting. Now that my new tires are scrubbed in, I will try to test that my bike doesn't touch at 50-deg, to make sure I have that safety factor. I don't plan to lean it more than 45, which is plenty for the streets, and have that extra for safety. I didn't expect the bike to be that nice in the twisties, so I'm VERY happy with my purchase :). And it's awesome to have the max lean angle readings. Wish I could reset them manually (rather than with each ignition cycle), but not a big deal. It'll allow me to read the curves even better, for surgical precision :).
 

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Thank you for you input. So if you want dynamic suspension, throttle, and DTC, there's no reason to use dynamic pro mode at all, right? Since dynamic mode already provides that.
Correct.

A guy with a R1200GS I met yesterday told me that dynamic pro 'learns' how you ride, but never heard of that before. Nor does that make any sense.
No, that's not at all what DYNAMIC PRO is about, though it's an interesting and imaginative concept...our bikes are high-tech, but not that high-tech.

At any rate, what I did with dynamic pro mode is to put the DTC in 'road' mode, since it was cold and dusty in the mountains, and left throttle in dynamic, and that's how I rode the Cloudcroft twisties the other day. As you could see on the photo I posted, I had some DTC intervention.
Right, because ROAD incurs more DTC intervention than DYNAMIC, which is a more lax mode r.e. DTC.

Anyway, by the same token, if you were to use dynamic pro mode with both road throttle/DTC, it'd be the same as using road mode with dynamic suspension, right? So that mode is only useful if you want to mix the only 2 available parameters (throttle and DTC), and keep suspension in dynamic mode (you cannot change it to road in neither of the dynamic modes).
If I follow you correctly, that sounds right, but I am cup of coffee short for the day, so... That said, I wasn't aware you could change the throttle setting in DYNAMIC PRO, as I've never wanted to downgrade the response...the only time I have it in ROAD is when I need a softer suspension, and even then I wish it had DYNAMIC throttle. If you can change that setting in DP, that comes as a surprise to me, but it won't be a option I'll ever use.

As far as the throttle settings, I'm breaking my bike in, so haven't been aggressive with the throttle. Maybe that's where the most noticeable difference between road and dynamic is? My bike was supposedly fully updated when I bought it (on the previous Saturday), but the BMW tech wasn't there, and it was done by the idiot who couldn't remove a weird service warning (doesn't say what it is for), installed the mirrors wrong, installed the battery backwards, 'lost' both grommets from the battery cover, and also 'lost' the red plug to protect the '+' terminal. In other words, everything that needed to be touched on the bike, was f***ed up by that guy. But the sport dash is there, so seems that at least the update must have been done correctly, I guess. It took over an hour to get it done, according to the salesman.
The white HP version that you have comes stock with the Sport Screen, so that's no assurance that yours has the newest software update...it was the standard and Exclusive (like mine) that didn't have the Sport Screen, but instead came with the software update as a bonus. The best thing to do is to check your TFT readout to see what software version you have, and see if it is up-to-date. I don't have the number on hand, but your dealer (or perhaps someone else here) can provide that for you.

Finally, I was very pleased with the suspension performance. Both road and dynamic pro (with road DTC and dynamic throttle) modes were perfect for the slab, and the cold and dusty twisties, respectively. I left the preload in 'auto' mode, which is the recommended setting. Now that my new tires are scrubbed in, I will try to test that my bike doesn't touch at 50-deg, to make sure I have that safety factor. I don't plan to lean it more than 45, which is plenty for the streets, and have that extra for safety. I didn't expect the bike to be that nice in the twisties, so I'm VERY happy with my purchase :). And it's awesome to have the max lean angle readings. Wish I could reset them manually (rather than with each ignition cycle), but not a big deal. It'll allow me to read the curves even better, for surgical precision :).
It's a helluva bike. I just put mine into winter hibernation, and won't ride it again 'til Spring. This bike makes the winters seem much, much longer than any bike I've ever had.:(
 

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On p. 148 of the manual: “The coordination of the Dynamic ESA also depends on the selected riding mode.” To me, this implies that the “dynamic” damping setting on the switch is harder in dynamic riding mode than it is in road riding mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That said, I wasn't aware you could change the throttle setting in DYNAMIC PRO, as I've never wanted to downgrade the response.
The best thing to do is to check your TFT readout to see what software version you have
Yeah, you can change that (2nd pic below), but like you said, makes no sense. Ha ha. I just put the DTC mode in 'road', like when it's cold in the mountains. For dynamic throttle (manual calls it 'engine') and DTC, I'd just put it in dynamic mode.
And good suggestion about the software update. Just went to the bike, and took a picture of it (1st pic below), to see if one of you could chime in if it's the latest for my bike or not. Thank you.

On p. 148 of the manual: “The coordination of the Dynamic ESA also depends on the selected riding mode.” To me, this implies that the “dynamic” damping setting on the switch is harder in dynamic riding mode than it is in road riding mode.
You're absolutely correct. Just read the entire section, and came to the same conclusion. Thank you for pointing that out.

Finally, attached a pic (3rd) of my weird service warning. And as you can see in pic #4, the regular service warning for the 620-mile service is there, so who knows what's that for. My GS-911 Wi-Fi is on the way, so hope it can clear that darn thing off. We'll see.
 

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Ah, that’s right…that second picture with the 3/4-pie chart icon does look kind of familiar. I think I saw that when I was initially poking around the TFT after purchase, and I guess just promptly forgot about it since the option to downgrade throttle response in PRO mode made no sense to me.
 

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No, that's not at all what DYNAMIC PRO is about, though it's an interesting and imaginative concept...our bikes are high-tech, but not that high-tech.
Depends on what is meant by "learn". There has been a lot of talk on various boards about BMWs and other cars having adaptive ECUs. That on the older ones, such as 30 year old 5 series E34 and 7 series E32 (and others) you disconnect the battery for a day, the ECU goes into learn mode and, if you're driving very spiritedly, the car becomes more responsive. I was never able to determine whether this is just a miscalibration of the seat of the pants dyno or a real, documented effect... If it is true, the modern ECUs will probably do that as well. But they would do it in every mode, not just in dynamic pro.


It's a helluva bike. I just put mine into winter hibernation, and won't ride it again 'til Spring. This bike makes the winters seem much, much longer than any bike I've ever had.:(
I agree totally. I ride it until the first snow and then wait for heavy rain in the spring to wash the salt from the roads. It seems a very long time....
 

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Depends on what is meant by "learn". There has been a lot of talk on various boards about BMWs and other cars having adaptive ECUs. That on the older ones, such as 30 year old 5 series E34 and 7 series E32 (and others) you disconnect the battery for a day, the ECU goes into learn mode and, if you're driving very spiritedly, the car becomes more responsive. I was never able to determine whether this is just a miscalibration of the seat of the pants dyno or a real, documented effect... If it is true, the modern ECUs will probably do that as well. But they would do it in every mode, not just in dynamic pro.
Such ‘learning’ is related to transmission downshifts and holding gears longer before changing up. Not applicable to manual transmissions.

There are learning functions on the Roadster, though. The gear position indicator, for example - when the potentiometer is replaced, it’s necessary to go up through the gears, holding them for a minimum period, then down again. The ECU learns what potentiometer voltage applies to each gear. Twist-grip position (0 and 100%) is another likely candidate, as is long term fuel trim.
 

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Such ‘learning’ is related to transmission downshifts and holding gears longer before changing up. Not applicable to manual transmissions.

There are learning functions on the Roadster, though. The gear position indicator, for example - when the potentiometer is replaced, it’s necessary to go up through the gears, holding them for a minimum period, then down again. The ECU learns what potentiometer voltage applies to each gear. Twist-grip position (0 and 100%) is another likely candidate, as is long term fuel trim.
That may all be true, but to be clear and not obfuscate the original point, the OP stated that someone specifically told him the DYNAMIC PRO mode learns as you ride and presumably then adjusts the PRO settings accordingly and automatically to optimize the way you personally ride.

It doesn’t do that.
 

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Mark – Moderator 2015 R1200R-LC Exclusive
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On p. 148 of the manual: “The coordination of the Dynamic ESA also depends on the selected riding mode.” To me, this implies that the “dynamic” damping setting on the switch is harder in dynamic riding mode than it is in road riding mode.
On an ESA equipped Roadster, suspension settings (Road and Dynamic) are set independently from the Ride Modes of Rain, Road, Dynamic or User (throttle responsiveness and DTC intervention levels). Either can be changed to a different setting on the fly - by a double tap on the LH ESA button for suspension or toggling through the four options the RH Ride Modes button. User setting allows one of the three throttle response settings to be linked to your choice of DTC setting. For example, my User mode is set to Road throttle response, as I’m often among traffic, and Dynamic DTC as I don’t mind a bit of rear wheel slip. User setting is only available to those with the Ride Modes Pro option.

BMW Motorrad implemented this differently on the 1250 by assuming you would want softer suspension while in Road/Rain Ride Modes (throttle response/DTC) and more sporting suspension response while in Dynamic Ride Mode, so they linked the Ride Mode settings with ESA settings. Not having a 1250, I haven’t bothered to understand the intricacies of the user interface, but I understand it’s simple to over-ride this after selecting a particular Ride Mode (e.g. after selecting Dynamic, soften the suspension from Dynamic to the Road setting). On the 1250, the User Mode was renamed Dynamic Pro (just to confuse things further).

Dynamic ESA on the 1200 also increases the rear spring preload, which sharpens steering geometry a tad. With the self-levelling function implemented on the 1250, I don’t know if there’s any preload change with Dynamic ESA setting.
 

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It's a helluva bike. I just put mine into winter hibernation, and won't ride it again 'til Spring. This bike makes the winters seem much, much longer than any bike I've ever had.
Likewise. It is dark in the morning now when I head to work, so I kinda loose interest. And only a matter of days before the gritters are out.

I don’t have dynamic mode. I tried RAIN mode, but it is horrible. It is like introducing a big lump of turbo lag. So, when it is absolutely pishing doon I just leave it in ROAD. And I don’t get all the talk of adjusting traction control. I figured I could lay down a bit of power accelerating hard out of tight turns in the wet cos the bike has traction control – right? Naw, the rear spins up big time and as I’m rolling off the throttle pronto the traction light is blinking. It doesn’t feel that quick or clever to me. I don’t lean on the traction control anymore.

I tend to leave the ESA in road most of the time, dunno why but I like the softer setting. And yup it is self-levelling, so nothing to do there.

I like Guy Martin’s outlook on gizmos – just gimmie an ignition switch, a throttle and some brakes that work – I think that was the jist of what he said.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
On my HP, you cannot change the suspension to road when in dynamic or dynamic pro... which kind of makes sense. And also the dynamic suspension is different in dynamic mode than in road mode (changed to dynamic manually), but as always, no specifics from the manual. And yes, many of us are curious if preload is added when in dynamic mode, which would make sense, but same thing: We have no idea if that's the case, and if it is, how much preload is added. I really doubt it goes to the 'max' setting, so if we want more cornering clearance, my guess is we'd have to manually select 'max'. Having said that, I have it in 'auto', and my question is if during aggressive cornering, which compresses the suspension quite a bit, if the system adds preload or not. Not sure how quickly it can react, since it must take a lot longer than the milliseconds that takes the shocks to adjust damping, due to a stepper motor having to crank the preload. If it's working like crazy, it might be better to just put it in 'max' before tacking the twisties, no? I'd like to know that :). Many questions, but not that many answers... but at least we're making progress with some here. Ha ha.
 

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You need to stop the bike to change the suspension settings. I am able to select either road or dynamic damping on the LH switch in Dynamic Pro, Dynamic, or Road modes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You only need to stop the bike to change PRELOAD settings. If you change modes, you just need to close the throttle (not using cruise), and it changes right away after that. And my bike doesn't allow you to change suspension to road in either of the dynamic modes. A message pops up on the screen saying 'wrong mode', or something like that.
 
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