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Quickshifting vs clutching - technical difference?

2K views 23 replies 13 participants last post by  Gareth 
#1 ·
On my '6 month old, to me' R1200RS, I mostly shift gears, up and down, using the clutch rather than the Proshifter. I try the Proshift in the tall gears occasionally but my clutch shifting in all gears is invariably smoother.

Also, I like to shift manually as I find it satisfying, a greater interaction with the machine one might say! I also have a contest with myself to make the smoothest changes possible - fun!

This has all made me wonder if, in theory, if either proshifting or manual shifting offers an advantage over the other, say in terms of mechanical wear or other effects. They are obviously quite different ways of shifting gears.

Thank you, Selby
 
#2 ·
I don’t see any obvious advantages. Shifting without the clutch risks damage in normal setups because you might engage the shift forks when everything’s under tension. The shift assist either lets you do it or stops you depending on the environment at the time you try to shift. If anything, it allows you to shift without the clutch when you do it correctly…without risking damage to the gearbox from needless stress.
 
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#3 ·
I have never used the clutch to go up the box since the 80's and sometime not to go down the box. I found the R1200r quick shifter to be quite good allowing me to keep the throttle open to change gear. However my Ducati monster 1200 is very different, the quick shifter on that is terrible so I have disabled it and use my normal method of dipping the throttle which I find smoother and quicker for me. At the end of the day I don't really think it matters to the bike if you do it correctly, a quick shifter only electronically dips the throttle for you to save you the effort. Without a quick shifter it's almost impossible to change gear without dipping the throttle so there should be no gearbox issues, most people I know just preload the gear lever (the gear wont change if you are on the throttle) and then when the next gear is needed just dip the throttle and the bike will change gear no problem.
 
#4 ·
The quickshifter does what the name implies: it allows quicker shifting and without using the clutch (in a way that is safe for the bike). However, the quick shifters found on the BMW boxer bikes are not exactly good examples of smooth up shifts. Shifting from 1st to 2nd is a no go as the bike will almost always lurch when doing so. From 2nd to 3rd you may need to take some load from the engine before using the quickshifter if you're at low RPMs. Downshifting, on the other hand, is awesome all the way down to 1st.

Personally I love the quickshifter. It allows me to focus on other aspects of riding without sacrificing the control offered by a manual gearbox.
 
#5 ·
Technically it’s the same, except that instead of the clutch releasing the load on the drive train, allowing the gears to slide, computer control of the throttle does it - quicker.
With both, though, timing is critical. At very low rpm, the bike can have difficulty matching the rpm because there’s not much difference - a clutch can be more forgiving. Blipping on the downshift is also critical, whether by computer with the quick shift, or manually. Very high torque changes can also be tricky for the quick shift to do without a lurch, especially in the lower gears where the effect of torque is magnified.
I tend to manually change gears most of the time, but do enjoy the quick shift when I choose to use it.
 
#6 ·
Upshifting 1-2 (and above) can be very smooth. All it takes is willing yourself to stay on the throttle, not necessarily wide open, but constantly accelerating, and overcome a lifetime habit of throttling off. But 1-2 around town, in traffic, is not ideal. I've ridden for over 50 years and my Roadster is the first bike I've had with shift assist; it took me a fair bit of practice to stay on the throttle and overcome that much muscle memory. Downshifting is easy - throttle off right to the stop and step on the shift lever, with authority. Shift assist doesn't seem to tolerate half-hearted stabs at the lever, either up or down. Also, I've found that finding neutral on this bike is easier than any other I've owned. Dunno if that's related.
 
#7 ·
Four decades of riding, of muscle memory, has for me made the quick shifter a seldom-used feature. I'm glad to have it, I suppose, and use it from time to time, but my clutch work is just as fast and seamless and it actually creates more mental work for me to use it -- to remember to use it and to adjust the throttle accordingly (to match closed to downshifting and open to upshifting) -- than not. Had I been given the opportunity at time of sale at the dealership to pick my features, I would not have selected the Quick Shifter, and that's still the case today, three years later.

I fully acknowledge, though, that that's much more about me and my reluctance to use it than any comment about the feature itself. For those who use it regularly and it becomes second nature, I'm sure it's a heckuva nice thing to have.
 
#8 ·
Technically, with a wet clutch, using the quick shifter rather than the clutch will result in less friction wear to the oil. That difference is lessened if you shift without the clutch but not using the shift-assist.
 
#9 ·
After 30K miles of riding the R LC I've found the following to be the smoothest. Smooth is fast.

Upshifting I always use the clutch for 1->2. At low throttle openings 1-2 with the quickshifter is annoyingly clunky. At high RPM and large throttle openings 1-2 is still clunky and fanning the clutch to shift 1-2 out thinks the wheelie control for a second.

Upshifting 2-3-4-5-6 clutch for casual, low throttle opening. Quick shift for high RPM & large throttle opening spirited riding.

Downshifting I only use the clutch when changing gear for an upcoming corner or traffic situation when the throttle is not closed. Or when dropping multiple gears for a stoplight.

Downshifting when decelerating with closed throttle I use the quickshifter all the time. It's fun to make the exhaust grumble and pop when slowing down near cars & other riders.

It's now automatic to me - I don't think about it any more. Just another way to control the bike like shifting in the seat or squeezing the grippy pads with my knees under braking.
 
#10 ·
Thank you fellow R iders. My main concern in using the quick shifter is the often resulting ‘clunk’. When that happens I think, ‘no more’ and I can’t help feeling it must be bad for the drivetrain. I have great mechanical sympathy you see.
If I knew the shifter were mechanically advantageous vs clutching I would persist but … ouch, that clunk! :oops:
Selby
 
#11 ·
You can find throttle/rpm ranges that are smooth... for instance between 2500-3000 rpm at 1/2 throttle or upshifting fromv1-2 I have found to be smooth. 2-3 below 4k is smooth. The motor has a lot of torque, so controlling that change in lower gears is the key.

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#12 ·
I have an injured left wrist and a bit of arthritis as well. Having QS and cruise control changed everything for me. I especially like coming into the many large 2 lane roundabouts near to me a bit hot and just tapping down 2 or 3 gears. Bliss now but painful without QS. I only use the upshift from 3 to 4 and above and l have only felt it clunk if l’m a bit light on the throttle or if it’s still on the small cam. Cheers all
 
#15 ·
I have never used the clutch to go up the box since the 80's and sometime not to go down the box.
I’m pretty much the same, well since the 90’s, maybe I’m just a bit younger than you mjgt.;)

I’m taken aback by this quick shifter craze. I use the clutch from 1st to 2nd, usually but not always from 2nd to 3rd, thereafter going up the box I don’t bother with the clutch.

Thank you fellow R iders. My main concern in using the quick shifter is the often resulting ‘clunk’. When that happens I think, ‘no more’ and I can’t help feeling it must be bad for the drivetrain. I have great mechanical sympathy you see.
Yeah I found that when I rode the demo bike. Having ridden a couple of other bikes with a quick shifter I had gotten the hang of the idea, but I found it crude on the R1250R and found myself rolling off the throttle a touch on up changes to smooth it out – which makes you think what is the point, as that is basically what you do to change up without the clutch anyway.

So no, my bike doesn’t have the quick shifter, and no I don’t use the clutch going up the box. Just unload the gearbox by snapping the throttle closed then open whilst at the same time lifting on the gear lever.

I use the clutch going down the box, expect when crawling through town where I don’t bother (do the reverse, open the throttle a bit, then close at the same time as pushing down on the gear lever)
 
#17 ·
I’m pretty much the same, well since the 90’s, maybe I’m just a bit younger than you mjgt.;)
I'm really hurt by this, what are you trying to say. This could even be considered a hate crime, I could have 6 coppers come round your house and harass you for suggesting I'm old. After a little cry I will consider weather to ask Harry for advice on taking people to court.
 
#16 ·
I also have ridden for 40+ years, and much prefer using the clutch. No need to think about it or "time" things properly, lol, just a smooth flow and smooth shifts. Smooth is fast. I can ride at a good pace, pass cars, etc - all utilizing the endless midrange torque of the boxer. The QS seems to want me to be on the gas when upshifting and off when going down and I never find it particularly smooth. I could happily do without it and do.

I also have slight arthritis in left hand (base of thumb), probably from years of heavy clutches like my old Triumphs, K1100RS, ST1100, etc. In comparison the new LC boxers are like squeezing a pillow, and in that regard I feel it's actually kind of therapeutic, haha.
 
#18 ·
I'm really hurt by this, what are you trying to say. This could even be considered a hate crime, I could have 6 coppers come round your house and harass you for suggesting I'm old. After a little cry I will consider weather to ask Harry for advice on taking people to court.
Oh dear, so not just old then, but a right grumpy old fucker! :LOL:

Who’s Harry by the way?:unsure:
 
#19 ·
Oh dear, so not just old then, but a right grumpy old fucker! :LOL:

Who’s Harry by the way?:unsure:
You don't have to be old to be grumpy, I've always been grumpy. You must know Harry, nice but dim, married the yank slapper. Moved to America for some privacy and has spent the last 5 years with his (I now have a title) wife taking people to court cos they hurt their feelings.
 
#20 ·
You don't have to be old to be grumpy, I've always been grumpy.
Fair enough bud, just as long as you are happily grumpy. Gotta have a good old moan and a grump now and again.

You must know Harry, nice but dim, married the yank slapper.
Dear oh dear but I think I might know who you mean.

I’m no lover of Scottish football, but sometime you gotta love the hoops – maybe your Harry would agree?

 
#21 ·
Err Umm, maybe gone a bit off topic just there.:p:p:eek: Look - quickshifting? Try this… Third to forth – full throttle, just snap it closed at the same time as giving the gear lever a firm prod up, then instantly wack throttle fully open – repeat until you hit 6th. No need to waste money on the BMW quickshifter.
 
#22 · (Edited)
For the second time in the ownership of my bike 55,000 kms, I somehow managed to confuse the quick shifter by blipping it while the quick shifter was doing the downshift.

Engine stated to rev erratically around 1500 - 2500 RPM despite any throttle or clutch inputs.

I slipped the clutch to get out of the middle of the road and then hit the kill switch.
Restarted the bike and it was back to normal.
This happened once or twice during the first year of ownership and BMW dealer just reminded me to close the throttle during downshifts.

Here is the fault code in created (Motoscan)

Has this happened to anyone? I use the quick shifter 90% of my shifts and especially for downshifts in spirited riding.
Font Rectangle Multimedia Software Screenshot
 
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