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I live in a small city. One actual BMW dealer although the Triumph dealer sells them along with 20 other brands. When I sat on the RS in March, 2020, I didn’t know about the R or that there was one sitting just behind the RS. After doing some research and discovering the R, I went back, found it sitting there, and test drove it. First BMW, happy to buy it loaded.
 

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Porsche is a far more boutique vehicle than a BMW moto.
Most USA buyers don't want to piece together a bike and wait 5 months for it to come off the line and be shipped here.
So it is nothing to do with being European (whatever that is) v American.

there are more Porsches here in the states than you would think, and lots of on-the-lot vehicles to choose from.
I have no doubt that the USA is a major market for Porsche. And I also suspect that Porsche USA will let the dealer know when they can let the showroom car go, just as Porsche UK does in the UK. ie, wanna buy the showroom car or the demo? – “will be available from - Sir”

That was 2020 after one of their biggest years... And if you wanted something different most BMW dealers will do a country-wide inventory search for your desired option packages and see if they can get the bike to you (or at minimum tell you where it is). MOST but not all.
I suspect what you are looking at there is Motorrad USA stock, not dealer stock. Same in the UK. One dealer network is not gonna grab another network’s stock. I don’t believe that for one minute.

I will say again, that my observations are about most but not all. Some companies will cater to the minority buyers who wish a bespoke vehicle/whatever, some will not. BMW Motorrad USA doesn't appear to have the desire to cater to the minority, as they are able to sell pretty much everything they bring in anyway.
But you don’t have that option. In the USA you cannot order a bespoke bike. Again, as far as I am aware, the bikes go down the same production line – they are largely the same across all markets. So why can’t you guys order a bike the way I can, and enjoy the value that brings? So, I’m thinking the US market must be fairly small (I don’t know – wild guess - I might be wrong there), or for some reason BMW struggles to find a suitable importer that can build a reliable dealer network – eg Elp TXjc’s dealer experience (nightmare) etc.

Porsche is a far more boutique vehicle than a BMW moto.
Coming back to that again. Remember that options are about extracting more (maximum) money from each customer. Porsche are absolute masters of that art right across the globe. But in the USA BMW Motorrad doesn’t even try – their approach is take it or leave it.
 

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Problem is if there's a feature you want which cannot be retrofitted (at least easily), like ABS pro, your only option is to buy the package that has it, and you have to suck it up and accept the rest. In my case it was only the chrome muffler, nav cradle, and bag mounts (but might use those in the future) that I didn't want, but they were bundled with must-have options, so couldn't opt out of them anyway. But since I paid $5K below the MSRP of $19K+ (+TTL, of course), it didn't hurt that much. Ha ha. For those who like to order, it'd be great if you could pick and choose each option individually, but that's rarely the case. It's too expensive to offer that, so you need to choose the trim and/or package(s) that makes more sense to you. Having said the above, as much as I like my bike, I wouldn't have paid MSRP for it, so glad I found a relative bargain, with a dealer (well known for never dealing) that decided to unload a bike when I was ready to buy one.
 

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Having said the above, as much as I like my bike, I wouldn't have paid MSRP for it, so glad I found a relative bargain, with a dealer (well known for never dealing) that decided to unload a bike when I was ready to buy one.
Yeah exactly, and its brilliant that you got the deal you wanted. Happy days. But, yeah, if in the UK, the showroom bike, as it was in my dealer, was the only option, I’d have walked and bought something else.

Anyway here’s a few more thoughts. In the UK the R1250R is listed at £11,440 and that looks like fantastic value in the current market. But it is pretty bare bones – though still 100% an R1250R. But most people are probably gonna spec it up a bit – lets look at a few of the popular options;

  • Heated Grips. Expensive at £255 but I have to say the best heated grips I’ve ever had. But you’ll be hard pushed to find a new or used bike in the UK without heated grips. Everybody specs the heated grips. Why are they not just simply standard?
  • Cruise control. Standard equipment on most bikes with a fly by wire throttle. BMW charge £405 quid for this. But everything is already there. What does it really cost, a tenner for the switch and a couple of minutes for activation of the software on the bike (probably automatically activated when the switch is fitted)?
  • Centre stand £145. I mean really, it’s a boxer. A sensible old man’s bike should come with a centre stand as standard.:)
  • Riding Mode Pro. Personally, of zero interest to me. But basically, standard equipment on most bikes with fly by wire throttle. It is just menu and software activation.


See what I mean. The BMW offers excellent value in the market – very affordable indeed. However, the spec is basic. And further BMW are quite good at extracting a grand or two from you for stuff – that in reality is already there.

But hey, I’m just an old fart that rides a boxer. Us old farts have to have a good old moan now and again. Now where did I put my slippers.:unsure:
 

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Regarding market, BMW knows exactly where everything is selling and going. When I visited the factory in Berlin in 2015, the start of the typical visitors tour had the air of a shareholders meeting, with presentations by managers outlining market growth over the years and current international distribution. After that, we were taken through the factory and portions of the production lines.

Regarding options, soon it'll all be subscription based. Heated grips or quick-shift not pure enough for the preferred ride experience? That'll save you a few dollars each month. Though chain v drive shaft may be a more costly fee. ;)

"In reality, the concept streamlines the process of manufacturing, saving automakers money. Instead of building cars with many different option packages to spec, companies can produce one fully equipped model and charge consumers to turn on the features they want." From: On-Demand Options: Automakers Move Toward Subscription Services

To go back to the thread, as for image from my own limited experience, the Ducati dealer I have been to visit is much more accessible. Urban, motos out on the street, feel free to walk in and browse around, and consider if this is for you. BMW has more of a threshold to cross and feels more exclusive (not always positive or easy to cross).

Of course, I am making very specific comparisons in NYC, and BMW Manhattan is supposed to be "relocating" this year. But hey, I think the comparison is interesting and hadn't thought of it in this way previously.

Ducati:

Wheel Tire Land vehicle Building Plant


BMW:

Automotive parking light Car Wheel Tire Land vehicle
 

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In the UK, most (if not all) the Motorrad dealers are physically attached to the accompanying BMW car dealership. In other words, they are fully decked out in a multi-million ££ corporate designed dealership with free lattes, cappucinos, and chocolate chip cookies for the family-in-tow. BMW as a brand do not target el-cheapo budget consumers wanting bare-bones spec vehicles. Halo M-spec models typically are top of pecking order and fully loaded with lots of optional extras - their definition of ‘halo’. Most consumers may salivate at an M5 Competition Pack, but may end up buying a 320d because they can’t afford the cost of admission or maintenance. Their bikes are no different. Look at the M1000RR. There are very few BMW riders who want bare-bones vanilla spec bikes, and they are a miniscule minority. Especially for the majority of types of bikes that BMW sell - targeting touring, exploration, or convenience. And for the performance end, BMW’s brand values of technology for performance and safety gain are foremost. Their brand values are not minimalism and it is not budget. BMW talk luxury performance and this comes at a price that many youngsters may neither want nor be able to afford.
 

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In the UK, most (if not all) the Motorrad dealers are physically attached to the accompanying BMW car dealership. In other words, they are fully decked out in a multi-million ££ corporate designed dealership with free lattes, cappucinos, and chocolate chip cookies for the family-in-tow.
The Glasgow dealership is now tagged onto the side of the Glasgow BMW/Mini service centre. It kinda feels like - if you wanna be a fully fledged multi dealer BMW car franchise – well you’ll have to shift some bikes too. I think there’s a free coffee machine. When I went for my service, I did what many do and headed off down the street to the nearby big outdoor shop (you know walking, cycling, skiing shop) – they have a nice café that does proper coffee and decent snacks.

Most consumers may salivate at an M5 Competition Pack, but may end up buying a 320d because they can’t afford the cost of admission or maintenance.
Most people buy a 320D because it is a nice car and exactly what they want. Irrespective of afforability, many people wouldn’t thank you for an M5.

Look BMW cars aren’t competing with Dacia and they never will. But they are trying to tempt drivers to spend just a wee bit more than say 22k on a Ford Focus, and instead stick a wee bit extra on the monthly payments and bag the 26k BMW 1 series. And where I will agree with you, is yes in buying the base model BMW 1 series (a very affordable car) you get the same badge that’s on the 7 series and indeed an M5 Competition. And have no noticed how many BMW's are on the road today?

Make no mistake, BMW are after as big a slice of the market (car and bike) as they can get their hands on without compromising on quality and image. Cheap? No. Expensive – maybe but not necessarily. Affordable – oh yes - often very.

BMW talk luxury performance and this comes at a price that many youngsters may neither want nor be able to afford.
The young bikers today are more often than not drooling over super nakeds. You can go mad and spec it up (BMWS1000R) with carbon wheels and all sorts, or you can buy the base model for just £11,760 (perhaps adding one or two options). It is a fantastic bike, but crucially, it is the cheapest bike in its class by an absolute country mile.

There are very few BMW riders who want bare-bones vanilla spec bikes, and they are a miniscule minority.
Here’s another wee thought. And, umm, back to drooling. I’ve always dreamed of owning a 911 one day – and you never know I might just get one sometime in the next few years. Every year Porsche UK, as one would expect, put on a small number of 911 press cars. This year one of the press cars is a base model plain white 911 Carrera, with 1600 quid worth of options – in other words, the base model car with almost zero optional extras. Mmmm, I wonder why they did that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
Their brand values are not minimalism and it is not budget. BMW talk luxury performance and this comes at a price that many youngsters may neither want nor be able to afford.
I agree, I think there’s a lot of legitimacy to this as a substantive factor to the bike looked upon by some as an Old Guy’s Bike, but given the pricetags of a loaded S1000R or KTM Super Duke 1290 or Z H2 or Ducati Streetfighter V4 S — none of which are saddled with Old Guy status but have similarly high price tags — it’s also pretty clear that price is often not the determinant factor of the label.
 

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I agree, I think there’s a lot of legitimacy to this as a substantive factor to the bike looked upon by some as an Old Guy’s Bike, but given the pricetags of a loaded S1000R or KTM Super Duke 1290 or Z H2 or Ducati Streetfighter V4 S — none of which are saddled with Old Guy status but have similarly high price tags — it’s also pretty clear that price is often not the determinant factor of the label.
BMW is not that weird niche manufacturer of expensive motorcycles anymore. A BMW no longer costs twice as much as a Honda.

If you take Lexmoto out of the equation, BMW is the third biggest seller in the UK. They sell more bikes than Suzuki and Kawasaki in the UK market.

BMW is very popular with young bikers, and here’s why;

UK Super Naked base model price list,

Aprilia Tuono V4 £15,500
BMW S1000R £11,760 o_O
Ducati Streetfighter v4 £18,895
Ducati Streetfighter v2 £14,995 (maybe not quite a super naked)
Honda CB1000R £11,649 (not a super naked)
KTM 1290 Super Duke R £16,349
MV Brutale 1000RR £28,700
Suzuki GSX-S1000 £10,999 (not really a super naked)
Triumph Speed Triple £15,500
Kawasaki H2 £15,899
Yamaha MT10 £14,000 (estimated price – TBA)



The BMW S1000R is the cheapest true super naked. And that is a big part of why it sells in droves, and yes often to young customers who can’t afford Ducati, Aprilia or KTM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
BMW is not that weird niche manufacturer of expensive motorcycles anymore. A BMW no longer costs twice as much as a Honda.

If you take Lexmoto out of the equation, BMW is the third biggest seller in the UK. They sell more bikes than Suzuki and Kawasaki in the UK market.

BMW is very popular with young bikers, and here’s why;

UK Super Naked base model price list,

Aprilia Tuono V4 £15,500
BMW S1000R £11,760 o_O
Ducati Streetfighter v4 £18,895
Ducati Streetfighter v4 £14,995 (maybe not quite a super naked)
Honda CB1000R £11,649 (not a super naked)
KTM 1290 Super Duke R £16,349
MV Brutale 1000RR £28,700
Suzuki GSX-S1000 £10,999 (not really a super naked)
Triumph Speed Triple £15,500
Kawasaki H2 £15,899
Yamaha MT10 £14,000 (estimated price – TBA)



The BMW S1000R is the cheapest true super naked. And that is a big part of why it sells in droves, and yes often to young customers who can’t afford Ducati, Aprilia or KTM.
Perhaps in the UK, certainly not in the U.S.. Here, it's one of the more expensive. As has been discussed in this thread, they are almost universally offered loaded-to-the-hilt here, all premium options, and the stripped-down S1000R bike that may cost L11,649 in the UK is loaded and close to $20,000 here. Same math applies to the R1250R. Here is my local dealer...they have two S100R bikes in stock, one for $18,415 and $20,940.


Those are not atypical prices, that is the going rate for the S1000R in the States, making it largely unaffordable to young customers who have not yet achieved a level of affluence that allows for a $20,000 chunk of disposable income for what is, for most American riders, a hobby toy and not a regular, practical means of transportation. It also makes many other naked bikes in the class -- MT-10, CB1000R, et al -- often a much more attractive bike from a financial perspective for those for whom price is a priority.
 

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Perhaps in the UK, certainly not in the U.S.. Here, it's one of the more expensive
That’s weird. The USA must be the exception.

Exchange rates etc can distort prices etc across different markets. But the Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, KTM are all Euro bikes. Same currency.

I dunno why BMW would be more expensive than its rivals in the USA when in the UK it is often considerably cheaper than its rivals.

I do note that once again the BMW configurator is pish poor in the USA. But then again it is one hell of a bike without any extras. Though the packages are really poor. I’d want the DDC, TPM, Cruise control and Heated Grips. That would be me done, but surprise surprise, that spreads me across the three packs.

BMW global bike sales have been generally increasing year on year. Their market share is massive compared to what it used to be. They have a big slice of the UK market. BMW bikes are everywhere in the UK. BMW are on a world domination campaign – they want as big a market share as they can get whilst maintaining a quality image.

But it appears they aren’t too fussed about the market in the USA.
 

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Just looked at the US configurator. The base black 2022 r1250r is $15640. For $600 you get DTC and minor cosmetics. For all of the other “loaded” stuff you have to get the Premium package for $2525 and this doesn’t include ESA.
 

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In the UK the base model R1250R costs £11,440 on the road.

1 quid is worth 1 dollar and 36 cents today.

So the on the road price in the USA should be 15,552 dollars.

So that seems about right Dougl.

ESA isn’t available in the UK for the R1250R at the moment.
 

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The UK configurator seems a lot more flexible. In the US, in order to add cruise control, you have to add the entire Premium package. I wouldn’t be surprised if this reflects better consumer protection in the UK. Your Heinz ketchup (at least in 2002) doesn’t contain high fructose corn syrup.
 

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In the UK the base model R1250R costs £11,440 on the road.

1 quid is worth 1 dollar and 36 cents today.

So the on the road price in the USA should be 15,552 dollars.

So that seems about right Dougl.

ESA isn’t available in the UK for the R1250R at the moment.
The $15,552 USD is the sticker price, not including delivery fee, tax, and license...
 

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The $15,552 USD is the sticker price, not including delivery fee
When you use the Build Your Own tool on the US site it shows the deliver charge as part of the total list price.
When we got our this fall the delivery charge was $495. I see it has gone up to $645 now.
I wonder what the delivery charge is for the UK.
 

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I wonder what the delivery charge is for the UK.

In the UK the base model R1250R costs £11,440 on the road. On the road means on the road. The price on the bike, is the price you pay (minus any discount you happen negotiate)

As I didn't have a trade in, the dealer delivered my bike to my door free of charge (I'm not sure what you mean by a delivery charge to be honest.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
As I didn't have a trade in, the dealer delivered my bike to my door free of charge (I'm not sure what you mean by a delivery charge to be honest.)
Also known as freight and set-up. The cost of The bike being delivered to the dealer and put together is passed on to the customer. In the states, you have the base price, freight and set up, document fee, and possibly sales tax. In some states, then, the R1250R can cost as much as $22,000: $19,000 base price plus $1900 state sales tax plus $150 documentation fee plus $600 freight and set up.
 

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So for a base model,

In the UK when I look at the Motorrad web site the price quoted is £11,440. That is the on the road price. One may try to negotiate a discount on that. But that is the base model ride away ticket price. No hidden charges. And it is the same price in Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland. The same price no matter what dealer you go to.

But in the USA, the price quoted on the Motorrad site of $14,995, is not the on the road price. So, depending in which state you reside in you can end up paying up to $7000 more in dealer charges and taxes! ??

So a base model which costs £11,440 in the UK can cost as much as £16,190 in some parts of the USA! ??

That’s hard to get a grip on, especially when historically consumers in the USA have always got a much better deal than in the UK and most other countries (historically low income and consumer taxes in the USA)
 

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Just looked up the invoice for my bike. Now I don’t think the On The Road price has changed since I bought mine, or if it has it has only changed by a very small amount.

So, the OTR price you pay is £11,440

But the basic vehicle price is £9,325

So, £2,115 is made up of delivery, registration and tax.

Both the manufacturer and the dealers must advertise the OTR price inclusive of all charges and taxes. It is the price you pay to ride away. Nothing is hidden.

I selected £1,770 worth of optional extras (which is £2180 options OTR). Taking my bike to £13,620 OTR

Though that is not the price I paid, as I then negotiated my discount.
 
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