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ESA isn’t available in the UK for the R1250R at the moment.
??? Mine certainly has Dynamic ESA. A big selling point for me as it is vastly superior for regular road riding especially with luggage and/or 2-up.


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BMW is very popular with young bikers, and here’s why;

UK Super Naked base model price list,

Aprilia Tuono V4 £15,500
BMW S1000R £11,760 o_O
Ducati Streetfighter v4 £18,895
Ducati Streetfighter v2 £14,995 (maybe not quite a super naked)
Honda CB1000R £11,649 (not a super naked)
KTM 1290 Super Duke R £16,349
MV Brutale 1000RR £28,700
Suzuki GSX-S1000 £10,999 (not really a super naked)
Triumph Speed Triple £15,500
Kawasaki H2 £15,899
Yamaha MT10 £14,000 (estimated price – TBA)



The BMW S1000R is the cheapest true super naked. And that is a big part of why it sells in droves, and yes often to young customers who can’t afford Ducati, Aprilia or KTM.
Sorry old boy, but BMWs are simply no where near as popular with young riders in the UK.

Most red-blooded young (20-30yo) bikers would almost universally pick one of those bikes on the list other than the BMW. It is not just an issue of price - it is image. The non-BMWs are lots cheaper secondhand and far more affordable. And as has already been said, finance deals makes most of the bikes affordable for many. They choose on image, and BMW does not target or appeal to young 20yos.


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??? Mine certainly has Dynamic ESA. A big selling point for me as it is vastly superior for regular road riding especially with luggage and/or 2-up.
Depends when you bought your bike spareparts. I bought mine in 2020. So, yes, I specced ESA. But in July 2021 Motorrad’s main ESA factory was absolutely and utterly destroyed in the unprecedented floods that swept across Germany and Belgium.

So ESA is not currently available on the R1250R in the UK. Nor is it clear when it will be available again.
 

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2017 R1200r LC sport.
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I don't know what your drinking up there in Scotland but the R1200/1250r cannot be described as a super naked, it's a great bike but it's no super naked.
 

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Most red-blooded young (20-30yo) bikers would almost universally pick one of those bikes on the list other than the BMW. It is not just an issue of price - it is image.
You can get nice clean low milage S1000R’s from 7 grand or even less. You can get an Aprilia for the same money as they suffer heavier depreciation. Whilst not perfect, the BMW is a lot more dependable than the Italian stuff.

As for image. TT wins. BMW have a high profile in BSB and WSBK. BMW’s image has changed beyond all recognition over the last 15 years or so.

Of the younger riders I’ve seen on big bikes round here – BMW is popular.
 

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I don't know what your drinking up there in Scotland but the R1200/1250r cannot be described as a super naked, it's a great bike but it's no super naked.
100% agree. That's what I'm saying. R1250R is a roadster. The S1000R is a super naked. They are not playing the same game - they are not in the same class.
 

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Dave in NE TN USA
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??? Mine certainly has Dynamic ESA. A big selling point for me as it is vastly superior for regular road riding especially with luggage and/or 2-up.


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At some point after 2020, there was a manufacturing issue and ESA doesn’t appear in the US configurator in the Premium package for the 2022 R1250R. It does appear under options, so it’s ambiguous. The GS has ESA in the Premium package.
 

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You can get nice clean low milage S1000R’s from 7 grand or even less. You can get an Aprilia for the same money as they suffer heavier depreciation. Whilst not perfect, the BMW is a lot more dependable than the Italian stuff.

As for image. TT wins. BMW have a high profile in BSB and WSBK. BMW’s image has changed beyond all recognition over the last 15 years or so.

Of the younger riders I’ve seen on big bikes round here – BMW is popular.
I don’t know many young bikers buying bikes brand new / factory order. So secondhand values count. And whilst BMW’s may not be super expensive compared to the competition when new, the competition are an awful lot cheaper secondhand —> natural popularity/affordability amongst the young. Plus, Team Green, HRC, Suzuki, Italian sex etc are far more exciting than Hermann engineering something in the latest shade of dark blue.
 

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Depends when you bought your bike spareparts. I bought mine in 2020. So, yes, I specced ESA. But in July 2021 Motorrad’s main ESA factory was absolutely and utterly destroyed in the unprecedented floods that swept across Germany and Belgium.

So ESA is not currently available on the R1250R in the UK. Nor is it clear when it will be available again.
Thanks - I wasn’t aware of this. Terrible news for the area, as I know several who live in the area and were affected badly. My bike was built early 2021.
 

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2020 R1250R in Pollux Metallic Matte
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Discussion Starter · #131 ·
So for a base model,

In the UK when I look at the Motorrad web site the price quoted is £11,440. That is the on the road price. One may try to negotiate a discount on that.
Any price in the States — online, in print, or at a dealer — will be for the bike’s base price only.
But in the USA, the price quoted on the Motorrad site of $14,995, is not the on the road price. So, depending in which state you reside in you can end up paying up to $7000 more in dealer charges and taxes! ??
Some states, like mine, have state sales tax. Mine is a little more than 10%. So a buyer has sales tax, delivery and setup, document fee, and registration. All fees can vary between dealers, and registration can vary wildly between states. $7000 is too high, but, yes, a $19K - $20K loaded R1250R (again, a base R1250R in the States is a unicorn that isn’t particularly relevant in this discussion) can have as much as $3500 to $4000 on top of the base price.

So, the OTR price you pay is £11,440

But the basic vehicle price is £9,325

So, £2,115 is made up of delivery, registration and tax.

Both the manufacturer and the dealers must advertise the OTR price inclusive of all charges and taxes. It is the price you pay to ride away. Nothing is hidden.
Nothing is hidden, per se, in the States, either…it’s common knowledge that an advertised price for any vehicle is before fees, tax, and registration, as well as any negotiable discounts. But no, advertised prices here are never inclusive of other costs…they are kept as low as mathematically possible.
 

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Nothing is hidden, per se, in the States, either…it’s common knowledge that an advertised price for any vehicle is before fees
That's exactly what is hidden. Ha ha. They could be from zero, to whatever a dealer feels like. And it shouldn't be that way. The fact that it is, doesn't make it right. And it doesn't matter if it's 'common knowledge' or not. Most first time buyers don't know most dealers tack on at least a grand over MSRP for 'freight and assembly', even though one or both area many times already included in the manufacturer's price (like BMWs). Not nice.

R1250R is a roadster.
Roadster = old man's super naked, no? And I turned 60 today, so I'm one of them now, I guess. Ha ha. Anyway, a naked bike is a naked bike, but it's hard to categorize the R12xxR, to differentiate it from all others. That's probably why BMW came up with roadster. But if you want to define roadster as a category, I'd say it would be a luxury naked bike with shaft drive, and over 1000cc displacement. And as such, it has no competitors. All current naked Guzzis with shaftdrive are 'standards', and even Guzzi labels them (V7s, v85s, V9s) as such. The upcoming V100 Mandello is more of a competitor to the RS. So I guess it's okay to call our bike a roadster, since either a name or a category, it's still the only one :).
 

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Some states, like mine, have state sales tax. Mine is a little more than 10%. So a buyer has sales tax, delivery and setup, document fee, and registration. All fees can vary between dealers, and registration can vary wildly between states. $7000 is too high, but, yes, a $19K - $20K loaded R1250R (again, a base R1250R in the States is a unicorn that isn’t particularly relevant in this discussion) can have as much as $3500 to $4000 on top of the base price.
I think you have to compare like with like, and the only way to do that is with the base model, irrespective whether many or even anybody actually buys a bare bones base model.

Comparing apple with pears doesn’t work.

Nothing is hidden, per se, in the States, either…it’s common knowledge that an advertised price for any vehicle is before fees, tax, and registration, as well as any negotiable discounts.
So the advertised price is not the price you pay. But nothing is hidden? In the UK the advertised price is the price you pay (minus any discount you can negotiate) - zero, ziltch, nowt - ie nothing is hidden.
 

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Roadster = old man's super naked, no? And I turned 60 today, so I'm one of them now, I guess. Ha ha. Anyway, a naked bike is a naked bike, but it's hard to categorize the R12xxR, to differentiate it from all others. That's probably why BMW came up with roadster. But if you want to define roadster as a category, I'd say it would be a luxury naked bike with shaft drive, and over 1000cc displacement. And as such, it has no competitors. All current naked Guzzis with shaftdrive are 'standards', and even Guzzi labels them (V7s, v85s, V9s) as such. The upcoming V100 Mandello is more of a competitor to the RS. So I guess it's okay to call our bike a roadster, since either a name or a category, it's still the only one :).
No a roadster is basically a naked bare bones motorcycle. Ie, Frame, wheels and engine. Or another way of looking at it – a traditional motorcycle – or perhaps a proper no nonsense bike.

I don’t think it is necessarily an old man’s bike, but yes younger riders are often drawn towards other things, such Super Nakeds and Sportsbikes.

A Super Naked is basically a sports bike without a fairing. They are generally completely and utterly bonkers.
 

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I don’t know many young bikers buying bikes brand new / factory order. So secondhand values count. And whilst BMW’s may not be super expensive compared to the competition when new, the competition are an awful lot cheaper secondhand —> natural popularity/affordability amongst the young. Plus, Team Green, HRC, Suzuki, Italian sex etc are far more exciting than Hermann engineering something in the latest shade of dark blue.


I think if you are looking at say a 6,7 year old nice clean bikes, well you can more or less have your pick. The price differences are generally not massive. I mean for example a 2016 MT10 is the same price as an S1000R. Though if you want an Aprilia or a KTM you’ll need to find another grand or two for the same year – but they were and still are much more expensive new.

And with PCP yup young people do buy new stuff!

But, the people I know who have bought KTM, Aprilia and Ducati all have their tales of woe. With BMW being much better and the few having any issues with Japanese bikes.

As for image,

BMW in the 1980’s (they actually boast that they are expensive)

Tire Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle Fuel tank




BMW image today;



Tire Wheel Helmet Vehicle Automotive tire
 

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Old guy bike? I'm 73 and I purchased a 2016 R1200R this past June with 10000 miles on it. I bought it because I wanted a lighter touring bike. As I get older I want to keep riding two wheels until I'm forced to a Can Am. The bike was loaded with all options. I've added a Shad top box, a Sargent seat, Clearwater lights, engine guard bars and hand guards. Along with the V Strom windshield I practically have a fairing. With the technology that is available on lighter bikes they make the best of street and touring riding.
Tire Wheel Land vehicle Fuel tank Vehicle
 

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No a roadster is basically a naked bare bones motorcycle.
No; that's a 'standard'; ha ha. Or all of those bikes would be called roadsters, too;). Plus there's nothing 'bare bones' about our bikes, especially compared to cheaper ones. As I mentioned, even MotoGuzzi calls their nakes biked 'standard'... and they have shafts too. Check it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #138 ·
For me, “roadster” and “standard” are exercises in manufacturer semantics and industry vaguery. I call and will continue to call my R1250R a naked bike because in my eyes the R12XXR is as much a naked bike as any of the others that bear the label.
 

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No; that's a 'standard'; ha ha. Or all of those bikes would be called roadsters, too;). Plus there's nothing 'bare bones' about our bikes, especially compared to cheaper ones. As I mentioned, even MotoGuzzi calls their nakes biked 'standard'... and they have shafts too. Check it.
Basically, our bike, the R1250R, has a frame, wheels and an engine. It has upright bars, a sit up and beg riding position and no fairing or other plastic fantastic add ons. The chassis is conservative and conventional. It is a classic modern roadster.

And if you go to the Motorrad web site, and click models then Roadster, one of the bikes you’ll see is an R1250R.

You’ll also see the S1000R, which yes arguably is also a roadster, but it is easy to understand why the journos have come up with the term ‘super naked’. S1000R isn't classic modern Roadster, it is more stupid bonkers roadster.

And indeed here’s some BMW speak on the R1250R

During relaxed cruising or a sporty tour, you experience the pure thrill of riding and the typical punch of the Boxer engine at all times.

(think pipe, slippers, flat cap and a warming cup of hot chocolate at the end of the day):)

And on the S1000R,

The air is filled with the smell of petrol. An engine revs up. Pure power unfolds. Showtime for the BMW S 1000 R. Dynamic Roadster outside, Superbike DNA inside. The chassis and engine carry the genes of the RR.
 

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Mark – Moderator 2015 R1200R-LC Exclusive
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The term roadster isn’t exclusive to BMW Motorrad - Royal Enfield refers to their 650 Interceptor as a roadster.

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