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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

New member here.

I test rode a 2009 1200R at a local BMW dealership and loved the bike. Problem is the dealership bought the bike at auction and has no service history or other information about the machine. It has 46500 miles on the odometer. Appears to be in good condition. Dealership said they did a 24k service. No warranty will be provided, although the salesman said they would "stand behind the bike" whatever that means. The dealership has a generally good reputation as far as I can tell and my test ride experience was pleasant and hassle free. I have only owned Japanese bikes and currently ride a 2019 vstrom.

My concern is everything I've read says these bikes are reliable but one must do the required maintenance. Without records there is no way to know if prior owner(s) were diligent about this.

I tried to negotiate a lower price based on lack of history but they would only come down a small amount off asking. The price is slightly above KBB and NADA values.

I'm debating whether to roll the dice on this one or keep looking for one with a service history.

As an added twist, I test rode a 2005 1150R, 10k miles, private party sale, WITH complete service history and the bike stalled during my test ride and wouldn't restart. Owner took it to an independent shop, diagnosis TBD. Go figure.
 

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I wouldn't get too hung up on the service records, and I consider that mileage a plus. Lots of older bikes sat so much they have more problems than if they had been ridden regularly. I wouldn't pay over book value though, if they bought it at auction they bought it real cheap. There are good deals to be found, especially this time of year. New models soon to arrive, people unloading bikes they don't want to store. Maybe hit the internet and look a little wider out.

Be aware some dealer's service dept will hold it against you not buying from them. Even though service is where the money is at. If so there are non factory BMW service specialists available too.
 

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Dave in NE TN
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Some thoughts for your consideration. You don't say where you are in your signature or profile so can't advise on the reputation of your BMW dealer. The dealer should be able to print out whatever service history the bike has in their system, unless there truly is none which would be unusual. The dealer bought it at auction so they should assume the risk and price the bike accordingly. Winter is almost here which should reduce the cost of the bike in colder areas of the US. The economy is getting poorer which should also reduce the cost of the bike with fewer buyers and more sellers & models. The dealer said they did a 24K service which is good, but did they do the 36K alternator belt replacement or at least inspection? The dealer saying they'll "stand behind the bike" means very little unless they spell out what that means in writing. They're probably a good dealer and it's probably a good bike but these are things to consider. Do some price research on similar models in your area, form your own price and stick to it - there are lots of bikes out there, for example the '11-'14 "Camhead" R1200R is clearly improved over the '07-'10 "Hexhead" R1200R for not a lot more money, and a few people (not many) have had final drive issues with the Hexheads. Be a smart educated consumer, good luck and let us know how it goes.

Cheers, Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the replies. I'll have to figure out how to add a signature. I'm in San Diego, CA. Prices tend to be higher here for multiple reasons. Dealer is San Diego BMW. The salesman said they have no access to service records beyond warranty repairs. BMW cars, yes, all records are available to any dealer, not so for MC dealers.

I rechecked my numbers and the price is pretty much in line with NADA with the options it has. They offered 6200 OTD which works out to about 5600-5700 for the bike. It's really an okay deal, just hung up on lack of history. If I go back there, i will ask about the belt, although i suspect they didn't change it. It also needs a new left mirror, there are some odd defects under the surface.

I actually prefer the styling of the 1150R, although the servo brake system is a concern. I'm waiting to hear back from the owner on what the issue is. Unfortunately he is way over book, asking 5k, book is low 3s. Plus there is minor damage to right side components from an apparent tip over. Most unfortunate is the magnesium cylinder head cover which would be expensive to replace. All purely cosmetic though.

Joe
 

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San Diego BMW is a very reputable dealership. I’ve known the owner since he was the Service Manager at Brattin Motors, so over twenty years.

As long as the bike has fresh fluids, a decent battery, and good tires, I wouldn’t worry about the lack of service history. But yes, verify the condition of the belt before you agree to a price.
 

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As long as the bike has fresh fluids, a decent battery, and good tires, I wouldn’t worry about the lack of service history.
I would agree. I would pay particular attention to the brake fluid and remove the oil cap to see if the inside looks clean. I think most BMW bike owners take maintenance seriously as I do, but in my case I do everything myself and don‘t have much in the way of maintenance records either.
 

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No, I would not. You'd be buying a pig in a poke.
I was very much burned buying a used 2009 at a BMW dealer. The bike was actually owned by one of the owners of the dealership. So, of course it was kept pristine, right? WRONG.
The service records were incomplete--as it turns out, and the owner lied to me about the condition of the bike, denying he had any fuel strip problems (it was bad when I took title, and they did NOT stand behind it--denying any help with the labor or the part, telling me "it was a used bike.") I specifically asked the owner about the fuel strip or any other issues with it and he told me, "no problems, it is a good bike." I believed him, after all he was the owner of the dealership, it was his personal bike...why wouldn't I?
They also didn't tell me the final drive had been replaced---only found that out when the replacement failed on a trip and the dealer in Santa Fe told me it had been replaced previously. The bike had <15k miles when I bought it and the 12k service, specifically questioned, I was told, by the owner, was done. I later found out was NOT done. There was NO service record for the 12k svc.

I would be wary, if considered at all. BMW owners tend to be anal--you may have noticed.
One thing you could do and recognizing this is far incomplete, is to call BMW Motorrad NA and give them the VIN, ask them to run it to see if they have any info on it, like was the fuel tank flange recall done, did the final drive fail, has the fuel strip failed. Do you really want to be on the hook for that because the dealership has a good reputation? That good reputation will be real comforting when you're broken down on the side of some no man's land road.
Any time a BMW shop works on a BMW the VIN is entered along with the work done, creating a history.
I do all my maintenance also, but I keep a record. When I sell the girl, I would expect the buyer to want to see it and not just put their faith in my shining countenance, and my reputation as an upstanding member of the local community as they hand over $$$$$$.
Two final things:
While it's nice that a dealership has a good rep, why should you fund it with your purchase based on that previously good rep?
There will ALWAYS be another bike

Caveat emptor

Good luck with your decision, though.

On the 1150...my previous bike was a 2004 1150. Loved it. The 09 1200 is more refined in its ride characteristics, but you can't warm your hands in the oil cooler.
The ABS unit...if it has gone south and it cannot be rebuilt, the repair is more than the bike is worth. the 2005s had a unit that could be rebuilt by Module Masters in Idaho. 2004 and earlier could NOT be rebuilt and the replacement unit with install was nearly $4k.
And why pay more to buy in SD? They will give you the same service wherever you buy the bike. Call around. The two Sandia dealerships in NM--Santa Fe and ABQ are good dealerships and they are the people I bought from. I rode my 09 rr out there (from New Orleans) took delivery of my new 16 GS, rode around the area for 600 miles, got the initial service and rode home. You could do that, too. They list their inventory online as most dealerships do.
 

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No, I would not. You'd be buying a pig in a poke.
I was very much burned buying a used 2009 at a BMW dealer. The bike was actually owned by one of the owners of the dealership. So, of course it was kept pristine, right? WRONG.
The service records were incomplete--as it turns out, and the owner lied to me about the condition of the bike, denying he had any fuel strip problems (it was bad when I took title, and they did NOT stand behind it--denying any help with the labor or the part, telling me "it was a used bike.") I specifically asked the owner about the fuel strip or any other issues with it and he told me, "no problems, it is a good bike." I believed him, after all he was the owner of the dealership, it was his personal bike...why wouldn't I?
They also didn't tell me the final drive had been replaced---only found that out when the replacement failed on a trip and the dealer in Santa Fe told me it had been replaced previously. The bike had <15k miles when I bought it and the 12k service, specifically questioned, I was told, by the owner, was done. I later found out was NOT done. There was NO service record for the 12k svc.

I would be wary, if considered at all. BMW owners tend to be anal--you may have noticed.
One thing you could do and recognizing this is far incomplete, is to call BMW Motorrad NA and give them the VIN, ask them to run it to see if they have any info on it, like was the fuel tank flange recall done, did the final drive fail, has the fuel strip failed. Do you really want to be on the hook for that because the dealership has a good reputation? That good reputation will be real comforting when you're broken down on the side of some no man's land road.
Any time a BMW shop works on a BMW the VIN is entered along with the work done, creating a history.
I do all my maintenance also, but I keep a record. When I sell the girl, I would expect the buyer to want to see it and not just put their faith in my shining countenance, and my reputation as an upstanding member of the local community as they hand over $$$$$$.
Two final things:
While it's nice that a dealership has a good rep, why should you fund it with your purchase based on that previously good rep?
There will ALWAYS be another bike

Caveat emptor

Good luck with your decision, though.

On the 1150...my previous bike was a 2004 1150. Loved it. The 09 1200 is more refined in its ride characteristics, but you can't warm your hands in the oil cooler.
The ABS unit...if it has gone south and it cannot be rebuilt, the repair is more than the bike is worth. the 2005s had a unit that could be rebuilt by Module Masters in Idaho. 2004 and earlier could NOT be rebuilt and the replacement unit with install was nearly $4k.
And why pay more to buy in SD? They will give you the same service wherever you buy the bike. Call around. The two Sandia dealerships in NM--Santa Fe and ABQ are good dealerships and they are the people I bought from. I rode my 09 rr out there (from New Orleans) took delivery of my new 16 GS, rode around the area for 600 miles, got the initial service and rode home. You could do that, too. They list their inventory online as most dealerships do.
 

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To the OP, request a copy of the 24k service from the dealer. If the bike rides well, has no odd noises, and isn’t cosmetically challenged, there’s no reason to suspect it’s anything but a recently dealer-serviced R12R with a bunch of miles on it. Only you can determine the value of the bike. The absence of service records doesn’t mean it wasn’t serviced by its previous owner. But like any used vehicle purchase, service records or not, caveat emptor.
 

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Just as a point of reference on the price, 3 years ago I bought my 2007 with 43k miles, computer, heated grips, Bill Mayer saddle, lowered pegs, bar risers, throttlemeister throttle lock, cee bailey windshield, luggage rack and mud guard for $4500 from a private party. The bike came with complete service records and had all recommended service and recall work performed. The seller threw in an aftermarket tank bag, aftermarket trickle charger, and cover. The bike did not have side cases or a top box, so i had to buy those separate (appx $600)(the bike already had the mounts for the side cases). The bad news is about 200 miles into my ownership the ‘lifetime’ drive shaft failed, which I understand to be an occasional, but rare occurrence. That cost me about $750 ordering the parts from Germany and installing myself. There were no symptoms that I observed before it failed, and no reason to believe seller knew of a problem (I went and talked to him after it happened and to try to ease the pain he gave me back $100). Unless your prospect has more/better features than what came with my bike, I would not pay $5600.
 

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I bought a 2011 with bags and v-stream for 5800 a few moths ago. The bike had only 11k miles. There was no service history, but i got to ride it for a few days with the option to return it if i found a problem. Also, the dealer was selling insurance. Think you can find a better deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I kind of assumed prices are higher in San Diego due to year round riding weather, higher cost of doing business and CA emissions laws. To import a bike that is not "CA emissions compliant", it has to be 2 years old and minimum 7500 miles on the odo. Not an issue in this case, but when I was looking at small dual-sports, I had to pass on some great deals in AZ and NV due to this.

The dealer ad for the R does say they replaced the alternator belt. The bike has factory hard bags, heated grips, center stand, mileage computer, tire pressure monitor and clear turn signal lenses. No traction control. Not sure if it has the optional anti-theft system, dealer didn't mention it but the little dash light flashes during idiot light check. BMW web page indicates no open recalls for the VIN. Dunno if that means there were never any recalls on this bike or that any necessary recalls have been done.

As the variety of experiences related here shows, it's kind of a crap shoot. This dealer has 30-some used bikes listed for sale. I note when they have service history available, of course they tout that as a selling point.

This would be a second bike used mainly for a short commute to work and I'm pretty good with DIY.
I'm tempted to buy it, but we'll see.
I should probably wait a month and if it's still there, see if they'll come down more.
Thanks for all the comments.
 

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Dealership said they did a 24k service. No warranty will be provided, although the salesman said they would "stand behind the bike" whatever that means.
“If it ain’t on the page, it ain’t on the stage.”

My bike’s history will show nothing but insurance claim repairs because that’s the only time BMW has touched the bike. I do my own maintenance, but I also keep records of what was done and when (more for myself than for others).

No warranty means “as is.” Knowing he can’t offer a service history, he should knock some off the price. That he won’t indicates that he confident that he’ll get someone to pay the asking price. I care not what his reputation is...you want something in writing.

Law school graduate and I work in the courts. When it comes to vehicles, I’d never put stock in oral promises.
 

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No, I would not. You'd be buying a pig in a poke.
I was very much burned buying a used 2009 at a BMW dealer. The bike was actually owned by one of the owners of the dealership. So, of course it was kept pristine, right? WRONG.
The service records were incomplete--as it turns out, and the owner lied to me about the condition of the bike, denying he had any fuel strip problems (it was bad when I took title, and they did NOT stand behind it--denying any help with the labor or the part, telling me "it was a used bike.") I specifically asked the owner about the fuel strip or any other issues with it and he told me, "no problems, it is a good bike." I believed him, after all he was the owner of the dealership, it was his personal bike...why wouldn't I?
They also didn't tell me the final drive had been replaced---only found that out when the replacement failed on a trip and the dealer in Santa Fe told me it had been replaced previously. The bike had <15k miles when I bought it and the 12k service, specifically questioned, I was told, by the owner, was done. I later found out was NOT done. There was NO service record for the 12k svc.

I would be wary, if considered at all. BMW owners tend to be anal--you may have noticed.
One thing you could do and recognizing this is far incomplete, is to call BMW Motorrad NA and give them the VIN, ask them to run it to see if they have any info on it, like was the fuel tank flange recall done, did the final drive fail, has the fuel strip failed. Do you really want to be on the hook for that because the dealership has a good reputation? That good reputation will be real comforting when you're broken down on the side of some no man's land road.
Any time a BMW shop works on a BMW the VIN is entered along with the work done, creating a history.
I do all my maintenance also, but I keep a record. When I sell the girl, I would expect the buyer to want to see it and not just put their faith in my shining countenance, and my reputation as an upstanding member of the local community as they hand over $$$$$$.
Two final things:
While it's nice that a dealership has a good rep, why should you fund it with your purchase based on that previously good rep?
There will ALWAYS be another bike

Caveat emptor

Good luck with your decision, though.

On the 1150...my previous bike was a 2004 1150. Loved it. The 09 1200 is more refined in its ride characteristics, but you can't warm your hands in the oil cooler.
The ABS unit...if it has gone south and it cannot be rebuilt, the repair is more than the bike is worth. the 2005s had a unit that could be rebuilt by Module Masters in Idaho. 2004 and earlier could NOT be rebuilt and the replacement unit with install was nearly $4k.
And why pay more to buy in SD? They will give you the same service wherever you buy the bike. Call around. The two Sandia dealerships in NM--Santa Fe and ABQ are good dealerships and they are the people I bought from. I rode my 09 rr out there (from New Orleans) took delivery of my new 16 GS, rode around the area for 600 miles, got the initial service and rode home. You could do that, too. They list their inventory online as most dealerships do.
Wow, I would have walked, no run, away from BMW after that. That reads like a Honda/Yamaha commercial. Two final drives at <15k?
 

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“If it ain’t on the page, it ain’t on the stage.”

My bike’s history will show nothing but insurance claim repairs because that’s the only time BMW has touched the bike. I do my own maintenance, but I also keep records of what was done and when (more for myself than for others).

No warranty means “as is.” Knowing he can’t offer a service history, he should knock some off the price. That he won’t indicates that he confident that he’ll get someone to pay the asking price. I care not what his reputation is...you want something in writing.

Law school graduate and I work in the courts. When it comes to vehicles, I’d never put stock in oral promises.
Sadly there is only one reason to make "oral promises". It's because you aren't willing to commit to them in writing.

Shorter, "oral promise" = lies
 

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Dave in NE TN
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. . . Law school graduate and I work in the courts. When it comes to vehicles, I’d never put stock in oral promises.
Sadly there is only one reason to make "oral promises". It's because you aren't willing to commit to them in writing . . .
I learned this the hard way ONCE, from a nice but somewhat marginal salesman at a very reputable dealer. When I bought a used bike he said the price would include the upcoming 6K service. Of course, it didn't, he didn't write it down and either forgot or denied it. Word to the wise from the voices of experience.

Cheers! Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Agree. Unless the bike died on the way home from the dealership, I doubt they would provide any free repairs. Maybe not even then, since the bike would be sold "as is".

DMV has a TTL calculator. This dealer is tacking on a few hundred in extra fees, which I think is lame on a used bike sale. Maybe a small "doc" fee for doing the paperwork, but 200+ is excessive. Then again, it is BMW.

That said, their "best" OTD price works out to 5750 for the bike, which is a bit above nada average retail. In the end, its worth what someone will pay. And the salesman was confident it would sell at asking price, seemed pretty matter of fact about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I decided to go ahead and buy the bike in question.
It's in my garage now. First ride to work will be next Monday.
I think it's a good complement to my V-Strom since it's so different.

Thanks for all the comments.
Look forward to learning a lot on this forum.
109588
 

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Any used vehicle is a crap shoot, but I'd bet you've got a winner.

Congrats!
 
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