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Your Riding Lines

7K views 25 replies 15 participants last post by  roadscum 
#1 · (Edited)
The vision line

Although there are other other ride lines…..I tend to use this riding line a lot when on a public road.

(New Zealand we ride keeping left)



Although this image, is for the benefit of those of you who ride on the right hand side of the road, in the world…it demonstrates a apex on a public road can be dangerous place to find yourself.

 
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#2 ·
Riding in the mountains of North Carolina in the spring or summer, there is no "vision line" almost all corners are blind from cliff or vegetation. and I'm guilty as charged with getting way too close to that center line on such roads. I want to use the "whole track." :surprise:
 
#3 · (Edited)
Riding in the mountains of North Carolina in the spring or summer, there is no "vision line" almost all corners are blind from cliff or vegetation.
In blind corners I need to judge my corner radius.

I use a vanishing point, a most distant point on the outside of a corner where either the centre line or road side of your lane, disappears from view.
If this point is getting closer to me, the corner is tightening, I should slow down, until the distance remains constant, or starts to increase.
If the point is getting further from me, the corner is opening up, I can go faster.

Though, I've still managed to give myself a fright every now and then! :p
 
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#6 ·
As yonderbob observes, a late apex is especially appropriate when the rider can't see what's in the oncoming lane because of landform or vegetation. This is my normal approach, and I find that the habit is deep and I do it in the car as well.

I first saw the technique to assess a corner's radius (increasing or decreasing) by viewing a vanishing point in Roadcraft, the UK police rider's handbook. This is an excellent book. It takes some application to be able to see what's happening up there (there are a lot things going on when you're cranked over in a corner!) but I have found the vanishing point a useful too.

However, I don't agree with Newportcycle that leaning more and going faster is necessarily better. It's the street out there, and the chances are very good that an obstruction will, at an inopportune time, appear in your path. The more you're leaned over, and the faster you're going, the less time and space you'll have to react and avoid.

Certainly one must become comfortable leaning, that's an essential motorcycle skill. But the even better skill is the ability to find the sweet spot between too slow and too fast.
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
Riding lines

Thanks Erin for bringing up an important topic. I think it helps educate or just bring to the forefront the importance of thinking ahead as we ride. Some may be able to use ability a little better than others but the most important thing is to ride within one's own limit. And to remember that it is better to be safe than sorry. If this means slowing down a little and using all of the road than so be it. Thanks to everyone on this forum who is helping all of us become better riders.:clap:
 
#9 · (Edited)
I don't know if I'm right, but I like to create discussion, a few times a serviette has been used over a coffee break, a few scribbles to indicate a road and a riding line.

Never thought about riding lines before motorbiking, not when I was mountain biking, or push biking on the road.

I'm surprised at the blank looks from co riders....could be the scribbles! or the two heads:clown: perhaps it just has never been thought about...something that just comes naturally for some riders.

There are some motorbike rider trainers, members on this forum...it would be interesting if they had any advice to chip in.
 
#10 ·
I see what the diagrams are trying to achieve - the problem I have with them (the first in particular) is that they seem to indicate a constant radius turn, which is an unnatural thing to me for smooth riding

In each case, I like the approach line, but I'd aim for an earlier, tighter exit - and once you see the exit is clear, accelerate smoothly out - slower entry and faster exit. The tighter planned exit gives you a bit of room if you find yourself a little hotter than planned, or the road surface catches you out a bit and you run wider than planned. Of course you should be scanning forward/near, left right to avoid such hazards, but it's nice to have a margin if you are caught out in any way. It still leaves room for oncoming traffic being a bit wider than it should, too.

One of the obvious signs of an untrained learner or returner is eagerness to turn the corner, resulting in a tight entry and run-wide exit. Far better/safer/smoother the other way round.
 
#11 ·
I see what the diagrams are trying to achieve - the problem I have with them (the first in particular) is that they seem to indicate a constant radius turn, which is an unnatural thing to me for smooth riding

In each case, I like the approach line, but I'd aim for an earlier, tighter exit - and once you see the exit is clear, accelerate smoothly out - slower entry and faster exit.
Interesting, I'm away for a few days on the bike…I'll have plenty of chances to think this through…try it out. I think I understand what your saying.
 
#12 ·
My riding course taught me to always be looking for the "vanishing point" - the further you can see, great - upshift, but as the vanishing point becomes close (like seeing nothing but a guardrail perpendicular to your path) - you must prepare for the truck/bus coming wide around a tight corner in the mountains you cannot see (yet). I enter slower after my course and exit faster when I know its clear. I liked the phrase - "When in doubt - downshift"

You can find more at Jim Ford's Riders Workshop.
 
#13 ·
That third photo really got my attention. I don't believe in ghosts; however, riding lines aside, if I see a transparent bus filled with transparent people coming around the bend, I'm going to give it as wide a berth as I can.
 
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#14 · (Edited)
There are basically two ways to go around a corner, the fastest most efficient line or the safest line, they couldn't be more different.
On public roads we should only ever be concerned with the safest route, on motorbikes we have a real advantage in being able to change our position within our lane, I use this advantage all the time
and I'm sure following cars or bikes wonder what I'm doing, in my mind I'm increasing my odds of survival.
I'm constantly frightened by how many bikes I see, particularly GS types with wide panniers oblivious to the fact that by hugging the apex they are perilously close to being struck by vehicles coming in the opposite direction.
I also have chicken strips on my tyres and it doesn't bother me, the state of the roads in the UK means we can very rarely go fully committed into a bend even if it's an open bend where we can clearly see there is nothing coming the other way.
Diesel, gravel, potholes etc mean while riding on the road I will always use a great deal of caution, I still really enjoy myself and the joys of motorcycling.
Riding on a circuit is totally different, but that's the only time I will explore fully my bikes handling potential or my absolute riding limits.
Touching wood and all that but in over half a million miles riding bikes on the road and over 35 years experience of biking, survival remains my absolute goal!
Life is great, the longer it lasts the better.

cheers
 
#15 ·
I'm constantly frightened by how many bikes I see, particularly GS types with wide panniers oblivious to the fact that by hugging the apex they are perilously close to being struck by vehicles coming in the opposite direction.
cheers
Some good advice Wildoat, as you have quoted above, trikes are another road user that can be quiet oblivious to adjusting there bike position/line of travel, so as not to have the wider part of their machine ending on the other side of the centre line in a apex.

Like you I move around in my lane, adjusting to keep space between me and moving objects, coming towards or to the side of me.
My other reasoning is for any on coming vehicle, my headlight has now moved, has it awakened a driver who has just fixated on my light, to oh...that object has now moved, what are they doing? making my presence known.

Same for a car stationary signalling to turn into a side road, his path of travel to move across me. When approaching this situation, I move my bike around, thus moving my light around, a moving object I feel is more obvious to a driver than me riding a straight line towards them.

That's my riding thing :closedeyes: my riding 'thingy' I do.
 
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#17 ·
My advice to my son with his first bike (Honda VFR) was "if he wanted to go seriously fast, do it on the track not the street" and I'm proud of him, he's got a second track bike (Kawasaki 600 and now Honda CBR 600) and progressed well as an amateur at track day events.

But to me, there's a serious difference in enjoying a spirited ride and full out pressing the ultimate capability of the rider (bike usually exceeds rider capabiity by a lot unless you're Valentino Rossi)....

I don't have enough resources (bike $ and insurance $ and skin) to put myself and everyone else at risk by the way I ride.

Good tips above! Like wildoat, there's enough surprises a it is to keep you on your toes if you ride a lot. In the mountains I find that you come across what I call "the mailman's swath of gravel" from his/her daily stop at the box just off the road surface for example. A few and random rocks will just make the bike refind its footing which is exciting enough but that regular/uniform layer right in your line is what gets the pucker factor up. And like mcmonkey mcbean, I too will wag the bike to give someone ahead I don't think sees me (especially left turning vehicle) a moving light. I ride with my bright on in the daytime by myself or leading riders and will blink it as well as a visual.
 
#18 ·
Mick Doohan has a few words on

How to corner




Its great to see some good videos put out by the
Department of Transport and Main Roads, Queensland, Australia

I think the transport department is very pro active towards motorcyclists here
unlike the transport department in New Zealand.:closedeyes: I won't rant on.
 
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#19 ·
Thanks Erin for a nice video. We can never learn enough about riding safely and still have fun doing it. Take care and enjoy.
 
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#21 ·
Agree, its too easy to gloss over lessons taught and think you know it all, it's all reinforcement.

An excellent video, simply stated and easy to understand. Thank you Erin.

I do however have one concern......
.....
...
.......... Mick is NOT riding on the "right" side of the road!!! hehe.

Paul
But for him, he is right on the left, Paul :wink2:
 
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#22 ·
Nice Thread !!

Never too old to refresh the basics. Good points Mick. Great thread Erin.
I loved to watch Doohan wipe up the GP field on the Repsol Honda.
He steered the RC through the curves by sliding the rear tire.
Perhaps Mick is one gentleman ABS Pro would be wasted on.:D
Once rigged up a garden tiller throttle to operate with his thumb
when his body was too busted up to operate controls normally.
We can all benefit from these riding technique lessons,
and pass them on to next generation riders when we are asked.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Think any space is good when you have no room, seriously, we have visitors to this country that will momentarily forget what side of the road they are meant to drive on.
A motorcyclist from overseas was killed last week in a valley close by to where I live, he was riding on the wrong side when he collided into a 4WD:frown2:

I would go for that small space up the side of the bus which would take me up the bank somewhat, you would have to give it a go with no other option.
 
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