[Gareth]

Blindingly obvious, but avoid buying a mk 1 of anything. Or indeed a "final" future proof version of anything. Look at the "final version of Windows", 10, and what has just been released as a beta version? 11. These large companies lie and lie all the time.

I was quite happy to buy the mk1 R1250R, after all the motor had already been well tested in the GS launched some 18 months or so earlier.

And in case the R1250R was an evolution of the R1200R, and quite possibly the R1300R will be an evolution of the R1250R. So pretty much tried and tested. In any case If this rumour is correct, well, we'll have to wait again for the update on the R.

Anyway, I would not trust BMW Motorrad to produce a reliable fault free motorcycle. Their track record over the past 5 or 10 years says it all. Poor quality control. They build their motorcycles up to a price that they feel the consumer can finance.

What gets me is that the main issue with the LC/air cooled boxer is the shaft drive! And it is more the lack of customer service that worries me. Folks seem to do so much better in the USA, NZ etc than we do across the UK when things go wrong.

Buy used motorcycles. There are some well-maintained reliable bikes around.

I found it cheaper to buy a used R1250R, all the used ones were loaded with what are IMHO gimmicks, gimmicks which the dealers think and insist add value to the bike. And bikes generally hold their value so well it can make sense to buy new. And if nobody buys the new bikes……………

 

[Gareth]

As good as the 1250 is, it doesn’t attract me, and likely the 1300 will be the same.

I wouldn’t have considered the 1200, but the 1250 moved the game on a bit, and yeah if it appears I might just be interested in trading up to the 1300 (if the rumour is correct), that is if there are further significant improvements.

 

[Gareth]

I wouldn’t mind 165 hp, if only for the straights. My objective in going to the BMW dealer was the S1000R but fortunately, they didn’t have a new one in stock.

One thing about BMW is that their quoted figures seem to be pretty honest. SC Project got 133.2BHP from a standard R1250R and 100lbs torque.

When I was in the Glasgow dealer, they had a few of the latest S1000R’s in.

I didn’t try the previous model the other year when I was shopping for a new bike as you can’t fit a proper top box to it.

I did try an MT10 which will take a full set of luggage if desired. Looking at figures and dyno graphs I didn’t think it would be that much quicker than my lightly modified FZS1000, but it was. Perhaps the lower gearing accounts for a bit of its extra get up and go, but it was overall pretty darn aggressive. I was put off by its tendency to wheelie everywhere and its excessive fuel consumption (short range).

But yeah I’d expect the S1000R to be similar Dougl, very aggressive whereas the R1250R is quick but civilised.

I did find that for me the MT10 has a really nice riding position. The new S1000R in the showroom was nice other than the silly way too high (for me anyway) pegs. It is very much a naked sports bike.

You gonna try one? Would be interesting to hear what you think after a test ride.

 

[Gareth]

1st gear redline and you're already breaking the speed limit. Fun, but you can't use it often if the popo are around.n’t

I personally would try ringing its neck in 1st or 2nd gear, and in any case most modern bikes limit the power O/P in 1st and 2nd gear.

The riding position on the RS was too aggressive for me so the S1000R wouldn’t have worked. The riding position on the R is about as bent as I can handle.

Ah sorry, I thought you were interested in trying one. I thought about trying the RS but just sitting in the showroom I didn’t care for the slightly different riding position – just a wee bit of a lean forward.

I didn’t feel that with the S1000R, the bars are pretty upright and don’t feel forward at all, what I did notice was the pegs, they feel every bit as high as a full on sports bike.

It will be a lot quicker, never mind the extra power etc, - it is a good 50kg lighter than the R1250R. It'll fly.

 

[Gareth]

Indeed, I nearly bought the first gen I think they called it T509, but the leg room is worse than the R, and I am holding a bit of a grudge for all the union jack waving on an Asian made bike. Love many Asian bikes mind you, but don't try to slap me around with your union jack and "patriotism" after laying everyone off and moving to Thailand. Still, nice equipment and impressive sounding numbers.

The original Hinckley Speed Triple was the T300 launched in 1994, and still, if you ask me, the best looking.

The latest one, according to some of the reviews I’ve seen is very much a track day bike that you can ride on the road. It is one very focused motorcycle. Personally, I get the feeling that ‘nakeds’ or at least the ‘super nakeds’ have become much the same as the sports bikes that they were supposed to be the useable alternative to – ie irrelevant.

At least BMW with the S1000R have recognised this, to some extent anyway, and clearly decided not to chase Ducati’s pointless 200BHP Street Fighter.

Will be interesting to see how Yamaha’s MT10 evolves. It is the one ‘super naked’ that is also a fully rounded and practicable day to day road bike, though its thirst leaves it with a worryingly short range.

Union flag? I’m still stuck with it here.

 

[Gareth]

Where will the displacement race take us? Nowhere, lake a dog chasing it's tail. My '11 Classic is the sweet spot for me. ESA, ASC, ABS, 88 ft. lbs. and dripping with style.



More money, more to break and diminishing returns after that

One of the reasons bike engines have been increasing in size is because increased capacity ironically makes it easier to meet ever stricter emissions regulations.

I’m not really that interested in the gadgets, though can’t argue against ABS. I’ve always had a bit of a soft spot for the weirdness of the boxer engine, and finally with the styling of the LC and the power of the 1250 its become a bike I actually went out and bought!

1300 boxer, an R1300R, bring it on, lets see what BMW do.

 

[Gareth]

Does anybody know what the actual CCs are on the 1300? After all, our current 1254 already qualifies as a 1300, by industry standards .

Dunno. But that’s a good point, and maybe why our 1250’s are called 1250’s. You know, the old drip drip drip. Helps the sales.

 

[Gareth]

Yes just make sure you have a tube of ky jelly handy next time you look at the shiny new ones in the showroom guys - having enquired about trade in for my r1250 r I was well and truly surprised , especially considering all prices are going up ( work for major car dealer and used cars are rocketing in price ) except for bikes it seems especially luxury brands like bmw , not cheap to buy or service etc . Bikes it seems are dropping like stones in value according to the reaming I got for trade in prices .

Not thinking of trading in any time soon. Could be tempted if there was a new R1300R coming out. But yeah I’d want a decent deal.

The next couple of years are going to be interesting. As you say used car prices have soared due to the supply issues with new cars. And there seems to be no end in sight to the shortage of electronics, if anything it is getting worse.

Bike dealers may struggle over the next year. Inflation is gonna hit 10% plus here in the UK. Not many folks are gonna pick up 10% pay rises to keep up. Heating bills in particular are soaring like nothing we’ve ever seen before (though note the cost of extracting oil and gas has not gone up one penny).

The bike market is a leisure market. Lots of people will be tightening their belts over the next year.

 

[Gareth]

It is almost here. Somewhere in my inbox is an invite to view the new GS1300 in Glasgow. Naturally I’m not quite sad enough to attend such an event, and anyway my first comment would obviously be – ‘so when do you expect to have the R1300R in stock’

I might attend the dealer once that is available for a test ride.

 

[Gareth]

There are a lot of bikes out there with 4 or 5 thousand miles on them that are 8 to 10 years old.

Sure there are lots of great 10 year old bikes, but you won’t find a 10 year old R1250R. I don’t know how much they are in the USA but in the UK the R1250R starts at just over £12,000 OTR which is great value. If I specced one today it would come to just over £14K which is still good value when you look at the price of rivals - most of them are much more expesnive.

The only GS that could interest me would be the M version if it comes out with 17 inch wheels front and rear, like the Multistrada Pikes Peak.

I’m just not into GS’s.

So, R1300R – well we’ll just have to wait and see. It better have indicators that work!

 

[Gareth]

All that tech crap gives me a headache.

I’d keep the ABS and Active suspension. Oh cruise control I like. These things I find are actually useful.

But other than that in terms of tech, just an on/off switch (a *** key BMW, just a *** key please!!!), and maybe indicators, that well, indicate. That’s all I want.

Oh and the letters and numbers R1300R on the tank

 

[Gareth]

I don't need a TFT display, phone integration, active suspension, cruise control, etc. Part of what makes a motorcycle fun is that it is elemental. Just give me the basics and lower the price several thousand dollars. Or...if you're going to charge a princely sum, make sure it has the worlds most advanced seat in regard to comfort and adjustable footpegs and controls. Every motorcycle I've ever owned I have to immediately get a seat for it. How can manufacturers make such advanced motorcycles yet feel like a vinyl covered piece of cheap foam is sufficient for the seat. Hire a freakin' ergonomics expert and make a revolutionary seat. I'd buy that over 10 more HP any day.

I love the TFT, BMW went from industry worst display with the previous R1200R to industry best with the R1250R.
Although……. What’s phone integration? Will it make the bike handle better.
And I’ll keep my active suspension and cruise control.
I’ve still got the OE seat on my R1250R, it is absolutely fine.
Traction control – very much overrated and often quite annoying.

 

[Gareth]

Bear in mind the R1200R had a 2013 technology display, which for them was pretty reasonable. I still like mine.

Just my opinion, but I think it was a stinker, a deal breaker for me. What were they thinking? I like the attempt at minimalism, but after that, for me, every aspect of it is a fail.

I haven’t looked at every display currently on the market – but no surprises in 2023 there are still some stinkers out there. My personal current favourite is the Yamaha Tracer. It is another deal breaker for me. Wouldn’t matter how good the bike is, and apparently it is very good, but glancing down at that pigs breakfast of a dash would peeve me off every time.

Well done Yamaha.

 

[Gareth]

My guess is that next year will be RT, RS and R for 2026. Maybe 2027 if they decide to make different GS versions in 2025.

What makes you think it will take so long to get the R1300R out?

I’m not sure, but didn’t the GS1250 comes out in 2018, with the R1250R following in 2019?

Also I’m thinking, now the GS1300 is out, the sales of the RT, RS and R may ease a little as some punters wait for the 1300. Surely BMW will be keen to get those new models out?

On the other hand, maybe it will take little longer as we are talking major chassis and engine update, rather than with the R1250R being more of an engine update over the R1200R.

Dunno.

 

[Gareth]

Ah well, time will tell, may have to be patient.

 

[Gareth]

Personally, I would trade for a lighter, smaller displacement boxer motor, that made 120bhp R1100RR type bike I dont see the value of making a heavier R1300R just to gain a few ponies. But they need to bring back ESA!

I think the GS got lighter, did it not?

ESA is still available on the GS, just it is now called Dynamic Suspension Adjustment (DSA) I think. So I can’t see any reason why it wouldn’t continue to be available on the new R1300R just as it currently is on the R1250R.

It will be interesting to see what the new bike is all about, pricing etc etc.

But yeah, like others, I want technology that delivers, but I don’t want to be saddled with technology that solves problems that never existed in the first place.

 

[Gareth]

Agreed! I ordered my 2020 R1250R with the least amount of electronics possible. That still meant riding modes, ABS and traction control, and Hill Start Assist (which I’ve actually found surprisingly useful…) were included, but nothing else, including DESA. “K-I-S-S” is the principle I adhere to, and when I read horror stories about keyless ignition and/or fuel caps that glitch, I’m glad I didn’t get seduced by all the glitz and glamour of the latest tech…

Will be interesting to see what the new R1300R is all about.

I did go for the ESA. The cruise control which I love. But I don’t have any extra rider modes, I’ve just got ROAD and RAIN and I never use RAIN. No shift assist etc.

Anyway I’m gonna have my usual rant about keyless ignition. My R1250 does not have keyless. And it might end up being the reason I may end up keeping it over an R1300R. This is because my bike has TPS which personally I think should be mandatory on new bikes just as it is for new cars across the EU and UK. But if I was to order a new R1250R, and presumably the R1300R will follow the same illogic, then I have to select the hateful (as far as I am concerned) keyless ignition in order to have TPS. Why?

Anyway electronics, can’t argue against ABS and I’d say TPS as safety features. I love cruise control. ESA is fine. But really after that I just want and on/off switch, I’m not interested in the endless menus, features and user settings.

 

[Gareth]

TPM is very useful when you have a puncture while riding!

100% agree. It should be mandatory, as it is on cars. It can save your bacon.

 

[Gareth]

I picked up a Stanley knife blade in my tyre and I saw a warning on the dash before I hit my first bend after the warning light. I will take TPM every time.

Absolutely.